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I did look a option to do full ECU remap but jsut seems messy considering BMW Service could and probably would overwrite it during servicing.

:LOL:
If this happens, BrenTuning give you a handheld that let you re-flash your ECU with your custom maps as many times as you want.
 

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Oh, I didn’t know that Ian, good to know. As I’ve gone down the Power Commander route on this one it’ll have to wait until I buy a second NineT 😆
 
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When I read all 30 pages of this ever lasting discussion I came to a conclusion BP effects are more notable on pre 2017 bikes. And maybe not everyone has the same experience, but mostly it works well on older ECU and Euro3 emissions standard. Some say the ECU adopts after some time even on EU3 older bikes. But most people see lasting effects. For the pre 2017 bikes that is. Maybe people who think BP stopped working after a while got use to it and don’t notice the effects as much any more, or they have some other issues with the bike that again negates what the BP is suppose to do. Many obviously expect more from the unit then just fixing low throttle control and richer fuelling for a short time when moving in low RPM’s. Because it’s clearly stated it returns to closed loop after Lambda sensor has time to adapt. Seems to me these people expect to much and increase in power and richer fuelling all the time. Why, they should have read the explanation and try to understand exactly what the BP is suppose to do. In my mind it’s all I need for now. Better low RPM fuelling for the first 10 to 15 sec, then back to normal after you get past the 2000 RPM mark. Which is exactly what it will do I am sure, we’ll on my 2014 roadster anyway. For the newer bikes it’s a whole different matter. I don’t even need to know. I am very happy with my roadster and will never change it for a post 2017 bike anyway. This is all temporary for me as well, because I believe once I get the full headers and flappers delete along with decat I plan to get a proper Remapping.

Cheers Riders.
 

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I did look a option to do full ECU remap but jsut seems messy considering BMW Service could and probably would overwrite it during servicing.
Certain professionally done remaps (not home/D.I.Y maps uploaded from some sort of handheld etc) cannot be overwritten by BMW dealers......they're not even aware it's been mapped, as the new map is put into a part of the ECU dealers can't access, and completely seperate from the BMW map, as it doesn't overwrite it.

Maybe people who think BP stopped working after a while got use to it and don’t notice the effects as much any more
Maybe that's true.......eat a really hot curry and it burns your mouth out the first time......eat that same hot curry regularly and it just doesn't seem as hot anymore!!

I've read on here may times that some people think the benefits of the BoosterPlug get taken away because the ECU learns and reverts the AFR back to what it was prior. I'm no expert on electronics....but to my mind if when first fitting a BoosterPlug the ECU is fooled into think the air is colder than it is, the ECU then does what it considers to be the right thing, and richens the mixture. Now what I can't get my head around is why a few months down the road the ECU would then decide that what it has previously done was actually the wrong thing, and then lean it back off! If the ECU has been programmed to deliver X amount of fuel at a certain air temp.....then why would it suddenly then go against what it knows and think that X amount of fuel for that temp is now somehow wrong?

To those that are convinced the ECU does indeed override the BoosterPlug over time.......if that is the case then surely just disconnecting the BoosterPlug for a while for the ECU to readjust back to not having one for a few days, and then reconnecting the BP would get you back to square one with the ECU then being fooled into richening up the AFR mixture yet again?

Anyway....everybody has their own opinions about that....all I can say I was completely satisfied by the way the BoosterPlug worked in the 18 months or so I had one fitted.
 

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Certain professionally done remaps (not home/D.I.Y maps uploaded from some sort of handheld etc) cannot be overwritten by BMW dealers......they're not even aware it's been mapped, as the new map is put into a part of the ECU dealers can't access, and completely seperate from the BMW map, as it doesn't overwrite it.



Maybe that's true.......eat a really hot curry and it burns your mouth out the first time......eat that same hot curry regularly and it just doesn't seem as hot anymore!!

I've read on here may times that some people think the benefits of the BoosterPlug get taken away because the ECU learns and reverts the AFR back to what it was prior. I'm no expert on electronics....but to my mind if when first fitting a BoosterPlug the ECU is fooled into think the air is colder than it is, the ECU then does what it considers to be the right thing, and richens the mixture. Now what I can't get my head around is why a few months down the road the ECU would then decide that what it has previously done was actually the wrong thing, and then lean it back off! If the ECU has been programmed to deliver X amount of fuel at a certain air temp.....then why would it suddenly then go against what it knows and think that X amount of fuel for that temp is now somehow wrong?

To those that are convinced the ECU does indeed override the BoosterPlug over time.......if that is the case then surely just disconnecting the BoosterPlug for a while for the ECU to readjust back to not having one for a few days, and then reconnecting the BP would get you back to square one with the ECU then being fooled into richening up the AFR mixture yet again?

Anyway....everybody has their own opinions about that....all I can say I was completely satisfied by the way the BoosterPlug worked in the 18 months or so I had one fitted.
Exactly Gambo916, I agree it makes no sense what so ever. I am BTW Telecommunications Engineer so electronics are my second nature. But I can't claim with certainty about fuel mapping and to understand every process and ratios in those maps. But I do know a bit about ECU Remap, even though I have done it for car software and no bikes before. This readaptation of ECU or the central processor unit claimed by some Riders in this case just looks like they have all overlooked the major characteristic of BP. Which is build intentionally to work enriching the 6% fuel mix only for a brief period. Just for the bike to work less lean at low RPM's and return to factory settings as soon as the lambda sensor reading kicks in. To me it seems they all can't get their heads around this simple proposition. I guess I will see for myself when I plug BP in to my 9T. On the flipside it's quite possible the EURO4 emissions standards for post 2017 bikes has brought something new, and even though BP creator offers a BP specific for those bikes as well. Maybe the difference in low fuelling is allot less noticeable after a longer use then on early machines. For my sake I hope this to be one of the reasons for this never ending discussion.

Cheers Gambo 🥶 :)
 

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I'm no expert on electronics....but to my mind if when first fitting a BoosterPlug the ECU is fooled into think the air is colder than it is, the ECU then does what it considers to be the right thing, and richens the mixture. Now what I can't get my head around is why a few months down the road the ECU would then decide that what it has previously done was actually the wrong thing, and then lean it back off! If the ECU has been programmed to deliver X amount of fuel at a certain air temp.....then why would it suddenly then go against what it knows and think that X amount of fuel for that temp is now somehow wrong?
Exactly the logic for me too.... Colder air, is colder air, is colder air..... so richen the mix.... That's what the ECU sees and richens the mix by 6%. The value of the reduced (spoofed) air temp over reality does not change over time so why should the bike think differently? Why would it think one of it's sensors was lying? It's not that smart surely...

I never looked at the BP as anything more than a tool to cure the low speed and small throttle opening snatchiness, and it did that really well IMO.

It's a fairly blunt instrument but for it's intended purpose I think it does it's job well.
 

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Exactly the logic for me too.... Colder air, is colder air, is colder air..... so richen the mix.... That's what the ECU sees and richens the mix by 6%. The value of the reduced (spoofed) air temp over reality does not change over time so why should the bike think differently? Why would it think one of it's sensors was lying? It's not that smart surely...

I never looked at the BP as anything more than a tool to cure the low speed and small throttle opening snatchiness, and it did that really well IMO.

It's a fairly blunt instrument but for it's intended purpose I think it does it's job well.
I am kinda happy to see this debate renewed s I am new to this party. And this round has more clearly defined the logic that "...intentionally to work enriching the 6% fuel mix only for a brief period. Just for the bike to work less lean at low RPM's and return to factory settings as soon as the lambda sensor reading kicks in" and that "the value of the reduced (spoofed) air temp over reality does not change over time so why should the bike think differently? Why would it think one of it's sensors was lying?" and this makes good sense to me. I hate the idea that just because I have one installed that I have to fool myself into thinking that it works. I see too much of that sort of odd justification for many things. That's not me. But the debate rages because of the seeming lack of hard numerical evidence. But again, this thought process is very logical and works for me. And, always keeping expections real, understanding what this unit really does, reinforces that. I can say now that I have a few tanks of fuel on my install I know what I am watching for as signs that it's changed or returning to pre BP behavior and I believe it has not. I remain open to more evidence either way.
 

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the debate rages because of the seeming lack of hard numerical evidence.
Personally, I don't need that evidence.

My right wrist and the seat of my pants tell me all I need to to know.


The same sort of disbelief and suspicion of the BoosterPlug has been directed towards the claims of various remaps too.....one in particular.

I now have that remap....and I don't care one diddly squat what the naysayers (mainly those who've never even experienced it) spout off about it. I know first hand that it has been one of the best mods I've done to my boxer......and just like a BoosterPlug........I wouldn't hesitate to use either again on any other bikes I may buy in the future.
 

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This is a great read, BP chat is always a good one. I do agree Gambo that my wrist is the ultimate judge. I personally felt on my 2017 that it didn’t solve the ’snatchy’ throttle. Now could this be in my head... yes! Could it have worked and my wrist didn’t adjust enough... yes! All I know is that when moved to more permanent solutions, the snatchy throttle has gone and I’m delighted to say it’s a pleasure at low rpm around town!

For me, there’s too many variables when it comes to answering if the BP actually works long term for everybody. Your bike type, year, and position of the temp sensor all play a part in how successful it will be. I say give it a go, if your wrist approves, great! If not then try something else. We bought this bike so we can custom it, gremlins and all.
 
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Your bike type, year, and position of the temp sensor all play a part in how successful it will be. I say give it a go, if your wrist approves, great! If not then try something else.
EXACTAMUNDO

At the end of the day, the cost of a BoosterPlug is mere chicken feed compared to what we laid out for these bikes.

If someone doesn't feel it's working for them, simply sell it on to recoup back a chunk of what was paid for it.
 

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Great discussion boys. Really I am so glad this forum exists. It's such an inspiring place for certain people and obviously to me, the way our brains function. To read there are other people who feel the same way as I do about a certain product. Even parts for servicing and the exact ways to perform with our own 2 hands really means a great deal. So much so I really feel inspired and in a sense protected from doing something wrong or buying a bad product. Anyway like all of you soulmates say, I will definitely order a BP and feel how my wrist responds to it's improvements. In case it won't be satisfying, sell it.

Cheers Riders ;)
 

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Former Tech here, understanding how modern ECU's work is critical to understanding how a Booster plug will work.
And also how it will not work. I'll try and keep it simple. you need to understand two systems and how they work.
Open loop program, and closed loop program. Let's start with closed loop, this is when the ECU references the fuelling tables in the ECU and makes adjustments based on LONG TERM FUEL TRIM Stored values (LTFT). this is also known as " learned fuel trims " when in closed loop, the ecu uses the accumulated LTFT Data, plus the actual data coming from the entire sensor system, including O2 sensors. With all the data it has, it attempts to run the engine at its targeted Air Fuel ratio. 14.7:1 taking in to account any corrections based on known LTFT tables.

Now, in OPEN LOOP the ECU has to move to REAL TIME DATA. The O2 sensors are too slow to feed the ECU fuelling DATA, so in OPEN LOOP, the ecu reverts to base Program fuelling tables, plus INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE ( IAT ) RPM, Throttle position and it may also take in to account engine temperature. In OPEN LOOP the SHORT TERM FUEL TRIMs are affected.

STFT are what the LTFT are learned from. The LTFT are an average of the STFT. the Long Term Fuel Trims are stores and used as referenced for fuel correction to achieve the targeted 14.7:1

STFT are not stored, they are dynamic and change often

When cruising under low, or no load the system runs in Closed loop

When starting the engine cold, when applying throttle or changing throttle position, when doing jus about anything other than low/no load driving or letting the bike idle. The system is in open loop.

Back to the Booster Plug,
In open loop as stated above, base fuelling maps, plus throttle position, plus RPM, plus Intake air temperature, and possibly engine temperature are used to make immediate fuelling decisions. The two most critical values the ECU has to know, and will prioritize is THROTTLE POSITION, and INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE. The reason is that in order to not run lean, and melt pistons and burn valves, the ECU needs to know how much air is going in THROTTLE POSITION and the mass/temperature of that air INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE. With that knowledge the ECU than can calculate how much fuel to inject via the fuel injectors.

So in OPEN LOOP, the Booster Plug tells the ECU hey the air is about -20 Degrees from the actual ambient
temperature outside, so the ECU calculates at X Ambient Temperature and X throttle position, based on my pre programmed fuel tables i need to inject X amount of FUEL. ( BP has fooled the ECU in to thinking its Colder and we have more oxygen/air density, therefore we need to add more fuel ) In open Loop the BP does what it is suppose to do.


In closed loop, BP has No lasting effect. in closed loop the ECU has a target of 14.7:1 Air Fuel Ratio, using LTFT data from O2 sensor input the ECU creates a correction table, the ECU takes its preprogrammed fuelling tables, than compares them to the stored correction DATA and adjusts its fuelling accordingly. it will do all it can to adjust to the target AFR of 14.7:1. So even though BP is telling the ECU that its -20 cooler than actual ambient, in closed loop the system is all about total averages to achieve target AFR. It sees the BP temperature, but just adjusts to meet its closed loop target.


In short,
On the throttle, driving around town, always changing speeds Booster plug does add fuel.
On the highway, cruising, low to no throttle input/changes. Booster Plug does nothing.


Hope that helps a little
 

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Thank you very much for this very well summarized technical info.
So if you are the type of person that rides very hard, meaning your always in Open LOOP mode, then you will feel the affects of BP. If not then don't buy the BP.

I must add something to your summary:
-The ideal AFR target is 14.7:1 (Stoich) but we all know that the ECU is not programmed to that target. They are targeting a lean ratio 15 to 16 in order to pass regulation. Which in consequence makes the engine behave in a way which you feel is not right.
-O2 sensor are too slow because 90% of all modern car/motorcycle use Narrow band sensor which only gives 3 values to the ECU [Rich, Lean, Stoich].
-On the other hand, you have Wideband O2 sensor which are more expensive, fragile, but gives you an accurate and instant AFR value which is the real ratio of Air vs Fuel.
-If our bikes had the Wideband sensor, the ECU will always be in closed loop mode because it can correct the fueling instantaneously to the targeted AFR.
 

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Thank you very much for this very well summarized technical info.
So if you are the type of person that rides very hard, meaning your always in Open LOOP mode, then you will feel the affects of BP. If not then don't buy the BP.

I must add something to your summary:
-The ideal AFR target is 14.7:1 (Stoich) but we all know that the ECU is not programmed to that target. They are targeting a lean ratio 15 to 16 in order to pass regulation. Which in consequence makes the engine behave in a way which you feel is not right.
-O2 sensor are too slow because 90% of all modern car/motorcycle use Narrow band sensor which only gives 3 values to the ECU [Rich, Lean, Stoich].
-On the other hand, you have Wideband O2 sensor which are more expensive, fragile, but gives you an accurate and instant AFR value which is the real ratio of Air vs Fuel.
-If our bikes had the Wideband sensor, the ECU will always be in closed loop mode because it can correct the fueling instantaneously to the targeted AFR.
Actually our bikes 2017+ seem to be targeting 14.2:1 at cruise/no load
 

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Don't know why they would be targeting rich mixture at cruise/no load (makes no sense at all).
It makes more sense they target lean mixture in order to reduce gas mileage.
 

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