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Discussion Starter #21
Another point is should you consider accelerator and BP equal??? I'm an electronic engineer and I compared both modules, they are not the same at all... BP is very consistent but I'm not convinced that accelerator is... you should verify the AIT temp while running to be sure you are still 20 degrees below actual.


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I have both too, measurements show that they are basically same.
Yes, if you look screenshots above, ECU shows (and sees) about 18C lower temp.
Problem is that ECU adapts because it corrects Fuel Trim Map values based on O2 sensors, so BP effect fades mostly away in one hour of driving.
After several tests, seems that minor effect stays, so "maybe" it is little bit better with BP then without.
 

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I have both too, measurements show that they are basically same.
Yes, if you look screenshots above, ECU shows (and sees) about 18C lower temp.
Problem is that ECU adapts because it corrects Fuel Trim Map values based on O2 sensors, so BP effect fades mostly away in one hour of driving.
After several tests, seems that minor effect stays, so "maybe" it is little bit better with BP then without.
Strange it seems to me non of you did read or understand the Booster Plug explanation on the way it functions with O2 OM sensor and the external temperature resistor, the closed loop and open loop functions with lambda exhaust sensor . It was all explained 6% richer fuel only while working in open loop function and returns to normal fuelling when closed loop function kicks in. All that testing when all you should have done is read carefully and make sure you understand.
 

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It was all explained 6% richer fuel only while working in open loop function and returns to normal fuelling when closed loop function kicks in. All that testing when all you should have done is read carefully and make sure you understand.
Kolega,

if you log with A GS-911 tool or similar, you can see that the bike remains in closed loop for most of its operating cycle, including moderate acceleration. If the BP only enriches open loop operation, then why is everyone praising the BP for smoothing out low-rpm performance? The bike is demonstrably in closed-loop operation at that time, and you say even the manufacturer doesn’t claim it does anything in that regime.

I’ve had one hex head BMW, two water heads, and now my 9T with a cam head. I can tell you that the 2018 cam head has the best fueling of the four. I’ve done no tuning to it because it doesn’t need it. The worst was my 2014 1200GS, which was annoying to ride through town because the throttle was like an on/off switch. AFXIED spoofers very nearly fixed that. My 9T is quite smooth throughout the operating range of the engine.

I do not agree that we should limit our evaluation of the BP, or any other device, to simply reading the manufacturer’s explanation of what it does.

Bok, T
 

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Kolega,

if you log with A GS-911 tool or similar, you can see that the bike remains in closed loop for most of its operating cycle, including moderate acceleration. If the BP only enriches open loop operation, then why is everyone praising the BP for smoothing out low-rpm performance? The bike is demonstrably in closed-loop operation at that time, and you say even the manufacturer doesn’t claim it does anything in that regime.

I’ve had one hex head BMW, two water heads, and now my 9T with a cam head. I can tell you that the 2018 cam head has the best fueling of the four. I’ve done no tuning to it because it doesn’t need it. The worst was my 2014 1200GS, which was annoying to ride through town because the throttle was like an on/off switch. AFXIED spoofers very nearly fixed that. My 9T is quite smooth throughout the operating range of the engine.

I do not agree that we should limit our evaluation of the BP, or any other device, to simply reading the manufacturer’s explanation of what it does.

Bok, T
Bok Tom,

Hmm, Again even you say the words that should be self explanatory . I don't have this tool, the GS-911. I think ultimately I will buy it, but for now can't confirm your claims. So I have to believe them. I don't wanna believe blindly in manufacturers words and explanations unless they make sense to me, and BP makes sense. Well especially when I compare it to operational explanations of some other devices of this type. However even this is not important, what makes a difference for me is that I really think this type of temp trick on the ECU and Air box temp senors is possible, and even logical to say the least. I say your own words are self explanatory because you said the bike remains in Closed loop most of it's operating cycle. See, this is just the thing... Most does not mean all of the time, and from what I read in detail how it works and what exactly BP does, for how long a time it needs to ultimately trick the ECU to enrich the fuel mix for this 6%. So it's this short portion of time where BP operates it must be the time of Open loop operation... After which Lambda picks up and corrects with it's own temp reading, but through this time while ECU completes process of information gathering and whatever else and returns the fuel mix to OEM, BP has already done it's job, the 6% richer fueling already smoothed low RPM lean factory fueling. At which point was the bike in Open or closed loop operation, for how long exactly... Can't be sure, maybe you can. Maybe you are right, maybe the bike is in closed loop operation in low RPM. But wait, does it not become closed loop operation after the lambda sensor starts to send temp reading and not before ?

So please Tom Tom, you are the one with this GS-911 tool, can you back up your claims with a graph or any kind of readings from this contraption... So obviously you can see exactly when our bike operates in open and when in closed loop operation, also you can see for how long, right ?

Well even if the ECU does eventually learn how to get it's low RPM fueling back to factory lean. I am gonna have to learn this for my self, through my wrist, to use someone else's expression. Also like you say, our bike is already so special and even without BP and with lean fueling I find it to be very smooth. I am enjoying my self trying to make it that little bit better, and that little bit more how I want it to be. For my mind made an image what this bike can become if I ever had a chance to own it.

Pozdrav kolega;)

Cheers Riders🌚;)
 

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Markan,

Here is 112 pages of data from when we had this same endless debate on the BMW GS section of Adventure Rider. It is chock full of GS-911 plots, as well as narrowband lambda signals being manipulated by various devices.

2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensor Project (and AF-XIED for BMW)

I suspect Baldy Dave wants to avoid 112 pages of inconclusive debate replicated here, but this is a well-trodden path. In a nutshell, older bikes like the R1150 series spent more time in open loop mode, but as emissions have tightened the bikes need to be able to stay at lambda=1 (closed loop) through more of their operating profile, to include moderate acceleration at lower revs. That's why the newer engines have rougher fueling around town, generally speaking.

To verify, you can do a simple log of throttle position, engine RPM, and lambda function and ride the bike. The GS-911 records those values as a function of time, and delivers a graph showing you exactly what load caused the bike to go into open loop.

Our various "feelings" about how spoofing temperature might have an effect on a fuel injection system are spot-on accurate for a 1988 K75S, but they are way, way out of date.

Srdačne Pozdrave, Tomislav
 

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Markan,

Here is 112 pages of data from when we had this same endless debate on the BMW GS section of Adventure Rider. It is chock full of GS-911 plots, as well as narrowband lambda signals being manipulated by various devices.

2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensor Project (and AF-XIED for BMW)

I suspect Baldy Dave wants to avoid 112 pages of inconclusive debate replicated here, but this is a well-trodden path. In a nutshell, older bikes like the R1150 series spent more time in open loop mode, but as emissions have tightened the bikes need to be able to stay at lambda=1 (closed loop) through more of their operating profile, to include moderate acceleration at lower revs. That's why the newer engines have rougher fueling around town, generally speaking.

To verify, you can do a simple log of throttle position, engine RPM, and lambda function and ride the bike. The GS-911 records those values as a function of time, and delivers a graph showing you exactly what load caused the bike to go into open loop.

Our various "feelings" about how spoofing temperature might have an effect on a fuel injection system are spot-on accurate for a 1988 K75S, but they are way, way out of date.

Srdačne Pozdrave, Tomislav
Tomislav,

Are you saying BP made specific for BMW R nine T 2014 bike, has no effect and the bike is never in open loop operation at all? Because if this is true, I would get this data and write to BP creator him self to ask him about this.

What you saying is that all those people who felt the effects of BP on 2014 9T Roadsters just imagine this?
 

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If the BP only enriches open loop operation, then why is everyone praising the BP for smoothing out low-rpm performance? The bike is demonstrably in closed-loop operation at that time, and you say even the manufacturer doesn’t claim it does anything in that regime.
Maybe coz.....the instantaneous millisecond you crack the throttle it comes OUT of that closed loop, and goes into open loop.....which as you've just said yourself......is where the BP gives it's benefit.

Now....I'm not wishing to pish off anyone, or disrespect their opinions here.....coz as @TomTom has stated this subject has no conclusion despite how much it gets debated, and I can accept and understand that. Maybe the BoosterPlug does indeed work better on earlier bikes more so than post '17 versions, and that is muddying the waters somewhat.......who knows??

So......at the risk of repeating myself....why not just try one? BP's aren't expensive....if it works for you and you're happy, then keep it. If after trying it you can't feel any benefit yourself, then offer it up for sale.....they usually don't hang around for long!

Simples
 
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Tomislav,

Are you saying BP made specific for BMW R nine T 2014 bike, has no effect and the bike is never in open loop operation at all? Because if this is true, I would get this data and write to BP creator him self to ask him about this.

What you saying is that all those people who felt the effects of BP on 2014 9T Roadsters just imagine this?
Ummm...no, I made neither of those statements. This is all getting a little too partisan for my tastes, so I’ll just let this thread carry on without me. Enjoy your bike, brate.
 

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You all do realize this thread will be a never-ending bun fight.... ;)

Just like an oil thread, BP opinions will cause healthy debate. I was happy with my BP others weren't, I can accept that.

I doubt that we will ever get to a point where there will be a universally accepted proof that the BP works or is rubbish.

But I am willing to be surprised! :)
 

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It works for me, that's all I know!
 
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this thread will be a never-ending bun fight....
Yup.....great innit!!!

Here's another angle to add to the debate....

I would suggest whether the BoosterPlug works for you, or not, may well depend on how YOU ride.

For example. if you rip around giving it the beans with big n fast throttle actions, then the bike will spend more time in open loop, where the BP can do it's job........but, if you tend to pootle around at low RPM using only the merest wiff of throttle percentage, then it's possible the bike will mainly stay in closed loop, making the BP effects hard to notice.

Make sense?
 
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Hello, i'am from Germany.
Very interesting Post. I own a R1250GS.
When i first installed the Boosterplug, the throttle response (on/off) was very smooth.
But after only 2000 KM the effekt was gone and i feel no improvement any more.
I want the wonderfull smoothness of the trottle back.....

Since yesterday i own a GS-911.
I cleared the adaption values (XBMSO1 Adaptions/Calibrations - Reset mixture).
After a test drive I found out that there was still no improvement with the BP...
Before i used the GS-911, i drove 10.000 KM stock again (without BP).

I found one error in the error memory:
"3A1571: LR adaptation, Bank1, mixture correction factor below threshold".
"This error has occurred 255 times".

What have I done wrong?
It seems that the R1250 electonic "learns" faster than the older ECU's.

Best regards
Martin
 
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