BMW NineT Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First of all.. I would like to apologize as I understand the oil question as been done to death! but can anyone with more brain cells than me explain what going on here!!

Ok.. one week ago came back form a 150 mile ride out on my r nine t 2021 model as soon as put bike in garage I placed the bike on a rear single sided rear paddock stand and a front paddock stand made sure bike was level by placing a level across fuel cap perfectly level side to side front to back.. waited 15 mins then check the oil level which was just under the top red circle.. thought that will do for me! no top up required oil level is where it should be..

Never had time to clean the bike.. so a week later thought I would wash the bike ready for the next ride out.. anyway.. bike as not moved still on the front and rear stand! so got the hose out wet the bike all over then give the bike a good wash then rinse off with a hose.. started bike to warm up and used a leaf blower to blow off any water which took about 15 minutes then let it idle for another 10 mins with the leaf blower blowing cold air on to the engine the bike never went over 3 bars on the temp gauge.. which is what the bike runs at which is 3 bars.. turned bike off waited 15 mins check oil level and it is was about middle in the sight glass.. waited another 15 mins and its now just under the bottom red circle.. now bike not been ridden since the 150 mile ride out.. not been moved still in the same position on the same stands as after the 150 mile ride out a week ago.. so my question is.. what the hell is happening here? don't want to top the oil up as it was the correct level after the 150 mile ride out a week ago.. bike not moved still on stands in same place after the 150 mile ride out.. yet oil level now is showing that it needs topping up.. can anyone explain the different oil level considering the bike not moved since the 150 mile ride out.. first service was carried out by BMW main dealer at 400 miles when it had just turned 12 months old.. bike as now 815 miles on clock..

So don't know if I need to top oil up to the top red circle or leave it alone as it was showing under under the top red circle last week after the 150 mile ride out.. with the bike not moving.. still in the same place on the same paddock stands can anyone explain the different oil level reading.. I'm no tech and I'm sure there is a explanation for this so maybe some one can shed some light on this!!

Reason why I'm asking this question is.. I've also got a 2021 BMW r1250 gsa and the oil level never changes before or after a ride out.. the r1250 is water and air cooled.. the r nine t is air and oil cooled.. so 2 different engines!! but would be nice if some one could explain why the r nine t gives different oil readings when just warmed up to temp and not being ridden.
 

· Registered
22 Cosmic Scrambler (K23)
Joined
·
163 Posts
There is a temperature actuated valve (expanding element, 95C 11411342761) for the oil cooler. The pump is geared to the engine so it pumps more at higher RPMs. You said you just let it idle. I'm betting the pressure built by idle RPM and the cooling allowed the expanding element to just barely crack open enough for oil to bleed into the cooler but not enough that it stays open for 15 mins after shutoff.

The principle is the same as putting a straw in water, plugging the top, and lifting it out. When the expanding element closes the outlet to the cooler at the top of the engine, the oil can only be replaced by air entering from the bottom line or by a very small gap at the expanding element just due to fitment tolerances.

Nobody knows how 'wide' each bar is (temperature range) so you may have just been hitting the bottom of the third bar while normally it operates at the top of the 3rd bar which would give more time for the expanding element to drop temperature before closing and hence more time for the oil in the cooler to be replaced by air. You do not need to top up the oil. If you ride the bike and get it properly hot, you should see normal level in the normal time window.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There is a temperature actuated valve (expanding element, 95C 11411342761) for the oil cooler. The pump is geared to the engine so it pumps more at higher RPMs. You said you just let it idle. I'm betting the pressure built by idle RPM and the cooling allowed the expanding element to just barely crack open enough for oil to bleed into the cooler but not enough that it stays open for 15 mins after shutoff.

The principle is the same as putting a straw in water, plugging the top, and lifting it out. When the expanding element closes the outlet to the cooler at the top of the engine, the oil can only be replaced by air entering from the bottom line or by a very small gap at the expanding element just due to fitment tolerances.

Nobody knows how 'wide' each bar is (temperature range) so you may have just been hitting the bottom of the third bar while normally it operates at the top of the 3rd bar which would give more time for the expanding element to drop temperature before closing and hence more time for the oil in the cooler to be replaced by air. You do not need to top up the oil. If you ride the bike and get it properly hot, you should see normal level in the normal time window.
Well I new someone with more brain cells would come along and give a explanation to this... suppose your explanation makes sense.. I know my oil level is ok as the reading last time I check it was spot on with me not riding the bike since as no oil on floor or leaks your explanation makes sense.. so I will not be adding any oil as don't want to over fill it.. but will be keeping a eye on the oil level..
love the r nine t excellent cool looking bike but dam .. it's more temperamental than my significant other half and she takes some beating.. Lol....
 

· Registered
22 Cosmic Scrambler (K23)
Joined
·
163 Posts
Yes sir. The manual says full operating temperature to prevent this same experience and any potential overfilling. But it takes a decent air cooled engine a loooooong time to gain temperature (beyond a basic getting warm perspective) at idle. With carb-fed airheads (single cylinder, I4, opposed twin, etc) you can idle in the sun for 20 minutes playing with the slow circuit mixture; and after a 10 minute ride you will have to adjust it for actual operating temperature because the previous idle setting will be way too high due to the engine warming up and running rich.

Couple that with the fact the oil temperature sensor is muuuuuuch closer to the actual combustion event than the cooler valve and well..... temperature deltas.

I wouldn't worry too much about the fussiness or anything either. Mechanically the engine is not fussy. It's just very German with exact measurement instructions to ensure consistency from measurement to measurement. If you want fussy, keep an 80s I4 in perfect tune where each cylinder has its own CV carburetor, there's an air-sharing system in the head, 4-2-1-2 exhaust, etc. 😅
 

· Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
Did you buy it to nit pick & abscess and compare it to your other BMW bike or ride it ? Harsh? Maybe ! The Are Nine TEE and the Wet Head bikes are two very different animals, comparing them to each other is like comparing a sail boat to a power boat.
Deadwood83 gets!

If you don't have a puddle of oil under your bike or an obvious leak the oil level will be fine between regular service, checking the level before a long ride (over 150 miles) isn't a bad idea but should only be done on a properly warmed and run in motor, I would say about a 20 mile around the block sprint and ten a check according to the owners manual or service book.

I have four (4) Are Nine TEE's from a '14 to a '21 and have never worried about oil level other than right after the first long ride after and oil and filter.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
I just sped read through this and will cut to the chase, when you shut down the engine after riding, put the bike on the SIDE stand for at least 15 minutes, that allows the oil to takes its path to the sump, other factors such as oil cooler valve, thermal expansion/contraction blah blah etc come into play. After said 15 or more minutes then you can get the bike level for a look at the sight glass. This chase your tail oil mystery has stumped new owners since the first Oil Head bike release in 1993.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
I just sped read through this and will cut to the chase, when you shut down the engine after riding, put the bike on the SIDE stand for at least 15 minutes, that allows the oil to takes its path to the sump, other factors such as oil cooler valve, thermal expansion/contraction blah blah etc come into play. After said 15 or more minutes then you can get the bike level for a look at the sight glass. This chase your tail oil mystery has stumped new owners since the first Oil Head bike release in 1993.
the manual for my ‘22 calls for keeping bike vertical (not on side stand) after operating temp is reached and checking after 5 minutes. I do this after each ride and top off as necessary. Mine still consumes oil especially when it’s hot. Due to the fluctuations in displayed oil levels during various situations, I don’t check the oil any other time. I don’t even want to know what the oil window looks like any other time!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
For god's sake, so they've now come up with a procedure that might well take a half hour of your day and require another person. Honestly, the oil doesn't need to be at the very top. My experience has been that if I tilt the bike up to close to vertical when the bike is cold and see the oil level in the middle of the sight glass, give or take, it is fine.
 

· Registered
2018 Urban G/S
Joined
·
299 Posts
For god's sake, so they've now come up with a procedure that might well take a half hour of your day and require another person. Honestly, the oil doesn't need to be at the very top. My experience has been that if I tilt the bike up to close to vertical when the bike is cold and see the oil level in the middle of the sight glass, give or take, it is fine.
This is what my BMW dealer told me: "If you see oil in the sight glass while reasonably level, after 15min off, then you're good. Don't worry about the exact level in the glass."
 

· Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
This is what my BMW dealer told me: "If you see oil in the sight glass while reasonably level, after 15min off, then you're good. Don't worry about the exact level in the glass."
Seems reasonable enough to me.. I knew the oil was at the correct level as check it after at 150 mile ride as per manual.. just was curious to why it altered the level to under bottom red circle after warming up and cleaning the bike.. "deadwood83" offered a explanation to why this would happen.. I'm no tech but it's the best explanation up to now.. lol..

In reply to "jeffsbmw" reply... I do not compare the r nine t to the r1250 gsa.. the 2 bikes are so far apart in technology it's impossible to compare these bikes.. I've had 3 bmw gsa's over the years but they were all water cooled.. so I'm new to the old air and oil cooled boxer engine.. but who else better to ask than the guys you ride them.. Thanks for all the replies..
 

· Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
yep....it's the valve that shunts/opens oil to the oil cooler.
Dose your old fellow know you smoke.. lol...

Also regarding the oil level again!! at to move the r nine t to get my GSA out put it back on both stands and guess what? oil back to the upper red circle now.. If I didn't know better I'd say the r nine t is taking the mickey.. love the r nine t but dam.. it's got a mind of it's own. it will now be a case of checking oil level after before and after long ride out providing it's at least in the middle of the sight glass then I'm putting this to bed!.

Once again thanks for all the advice received..
 

· Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Dose your old fellow know you smoke.. lol...

Also regarding the oil level again!! at to move the r nine t to get my GSA out put it back on both stands and guess what? oil back to the upper red circle now.. If I didn't know better I'd say the r nine t is taking the mickey.. love the r nine t but dam.. it's got a mind of it's own. it will now be a case of checking oil level after before and after long ride out providing it's at least in the middle of the sight glass then I'm putting this to bed!.

Once again thanks for all the advice received..
Do not dismiss the possibility that the thermostatic valve is cycling at various temperature. So from what I can figure out there are three possible components that could be suspect. 1. This temperature sensor. 2. The software logic that tells the valve to cycle is buggy. * If indeed the valve is software actuated. 3. The valve itself. I cant find a cut on the valve. That would help. If the valve is non software driven it might be a bi-metal configuration or some other MECHANICAL actuation that is triggered by temperature and not a signal from the CPU.
Product Camera accessory Microphone Gadget Audio equipment

by temperature and not a signal from the CPU.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
BTW, @beemaguy, I was showing my slight exasperation for BMW and their hyper-complicated oil checking procedure, not for your desire to know what had changed with your oil level. :)
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top