BMW NineT Forum banner

1 - 20 of 148 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,222 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
There seem to have been much discussion on replacing the front forks entirely with Ohlins forks or with Ohlins internal upgrade cartridges and admittedly the feedback has been excellent.

I'm however looking for a more cost-effective upgrade that would bring a bit less dive and more stability under braking. There have been sporadic discussions about HyperPro fork spring upgrades, but no feedback that I can see. Do Wilbers supply fork springs for our model of BMW? Ohlins spring upgrade as well?

So anyone with INTERNAL upgrade experience or ideas for ways of enhancing the performance of the stock front end please feel free to contribute.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,286 Posts
There seem to have been much discussion on replacing the front forks entirely with Ohlins forks or with Ohlins internal upgrade cartridges and admittedly the feedback has been excellent.

I'm however looking for a more cost-effective upgrade that would bring a bit less dive and more stability under braking. There have been sporadic discussions about HyperPro fork spring upgrades, but no feedback that I can see. Do Wilbers supply fork springs for our model of BMW? Ohlins spring upgrade as well?

So anyone with INTERNAL upgrade experience or ideas for ways of enhancing the performance of the stock front end please feel free to contribute.
I would think the most cost effective solution would be to just upgrade the springs/oil. Nothing with the Ohlins name is ever going to be the value choice. If you're just looking to improve stock performance, Hyperpro and Wilbers are both a big jump up in quality:

Hyperpro Progressive Front Fork Spring Kit BMW S1000RR | eBay

Or, keep an eye out on Ebay for an S1000R owner selling their internals after an upgrade. There's a very good chance they think it's worthless and have no idea there's a bunch of R9T owners who would love the adjustability.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
From my conversation with Dan Kyle putting s1000 forks in the NineT without having them re-valved and re sprung could do more harm than good. Sure you'd get adjustability, but the setup for the s1000 is much different than for the NineT he said. You can't tune forks with the adjustments alone, they need to be setup right from the start then you can fine tune them.
It costs about $300 (here at least) to just have forks revalved and serviced. Plus springs, plus the cost of someone swapping out the inners, machining the NineT forks if needed, plus the cost of the s1000 inners. I've seen s1000 cartridges come and go on eBay for about $400 a pair.
I've looked into doing just that to get better handling and adjustability and when it's all said and done I was close enough to buying Ohlins and getting the real deal so I just settled on waiting until I save up enough.
Forks are only half the battle, you still have a crap shock on the rear too... they both effect each other equally in how a bike handles.

Now, granted just changing springs and or oil could help, but the Showa forks on the NineT have crap components and you can only polish a turd so much. Probably more useful if you are outside the "standard" weight the suspension is made for.
I changed out springs and oil, with Ohlins and Hyperpro on my 800GS and F800R trying to get better performance, played with different weight and level of oil... it helped with the extreme fork dive on that bike but was nothing like when I put Ohlins inners on it. Overall a lot of time waisted for little gain.
I know it's apples to oranges, but the hyper pro spring upgrade was the least impressive with their variable spring rate. Too soft in the beginning of the stroke, to harsh at the end. That's what oil moving through valves and shims are for...

I have top quality WP suspension on my Husaberg, the difference between stock valving, no matter how I adjusted them, and after a talented tuner set them up for me is very obvious. There's no magic, cheap way to get great handling on bikes, especially BMW's with cheap, crappy stock suspension. It takes good quality components all working together front and rear, and a talented tuner who sets them up for YOU to get the most out of suspension, IMHO.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,220 Posts
No cheap solution. Rear also needs to be done, not just the front. $3200 all up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,286 Posts
No cheap solution. Rear also needs to be done, not just the front. $3200 all up.
There's no cheap solution to improving the full suspension suite for handling and comfort, that's true. But if you read the OP, all Dave is looking for is a little less dive and better braking stability - which can easily be achieved with a spring upgrade.

Obviously, if money was not a factor, we'd all be rolling on Ohlins, but you can improve your suspension without dropping $3000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
I had Hyperpro upgrades on my Ape. While it may not be that magical bit of kit such as Ohlins my very own "Butt-O-Meeter" reported noticeable improvements in ride quality and how much it dives under braking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
722 Posts
Obviously, if money was not a factor, we'd all be rolling on Ohlins, but you can improve your suspension without dropping $3000.
Yep. Depends on what your expectations are.

IF I was going to do just one (relatively inexpensive) thing it would be stiffer single rate (non-progressive) fork springs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Springs

I installed a set of Hyperpro progressive springs in a CB1100 a couple of years ago. It came with 15w fluid up from the stock 10w. The bike had less dive and did handle a bit better too.
The stock spring is on the right.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
There's no cheap solution to improving the full suspension suite for handling and comfort, that's true. But if you read the OP, all Dave is looking for is a little less dive and better braking stability - which can easily be achieved with a spring upgrade.
But by just focusing on less dive by using a stiffer spring alone, you will lose overall handling, which equates to less traction, less safe, less fun.
It's all connected and you can't fix one aspect alone without effecting others.
A higher spring rate for a given weight might slow down the brake dive, but at the cost of the forks to be able absorb bumps and rebound correctly on the road.
Personally I haven't thought the fork dive was ever an issue on the NineT, and I came from a 1200R with tele lever and no brake dive.
Harsh on the highway, not confidence inspiring in the canyons when going over bumps while leaned over and braking are the problems I feel.
Chattery when getting pushed hard or sometimes just cruising along.
If I jump on my R1200R with Ohlins, then back on the NineT it's painfully obvious how crappy the suspension is...

I guess my post was just trying to say that in my experience I've learned how it's all connected and a compromise if you try to upgrade one thing but not others.
Assuming you're the "correct weight"
I won't be bothering to try to put a bandaid on shite suspension and waisting money in the long run. BTDT, and it's just not good enough for me in the long run. Suspension's just a wear item and will need to be replaced around 25k miles. Before my bike has it's first birthday in March I'll have over the life of the suspension on it anyways, so I'm saving up for Ohlins shock, cartridges and damper.

It would be much easier if BMW just charged what they needed to charge for the bike to have quality, adjustable, rebuildable suspension from the start, but as anyone who's been riding BMW's before knows, that just ain't gonna happen... >:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
ou could go for Wilbers Stuff:

Wilbers Suspension Manufaktur | R Nine T | R1ST | online kaufen

I have my front forks at a Wilbers dealer right now and I have the 642 shock ordered.

Cheap they ain´t, but high quality. Some say Öhlins is still better, however I have WIlbers shocks and Fork springs in my Triumph Rocket and I love em...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Womble

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,222 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
@Michel
This sounds very interesting. Please let us know how you feel the upgrades work on the bike. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
I will. But that will take some time... lots of the white stuff on the streets right now. The bike hasn`t seen the road yet, got it delivered mid december and it not registered yet...

BTW, there is another German company doing stuff for the R9T:

Fahrwerk Räder

HH Racetech is about 30 klicks away from me and he guy was involved in the prototype building of several BMWs... I know a guy who had his forks upgraded by HH and he is very satiesfied (Rocket 3, not the R9T)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,222 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
From my conversation with Dan Kyle putting s1000 forks in the NineT without having them re-valved and re sprung could do more harm than good. Sure you'd get adjustability, but the setup for the s1000 is much different than for the NineT he said. You can't tune forks with the adjustments alone, they need to be setup right from the start then you can fine tune them.
It costs about $300 (here at least) to just have forks revalved and serviced. Plus springs, plus the cost of someone swapping out the inners, machining the NineT forks if needed, plus the cost of the s1000 inners. I've seen s1000 cartridges come and go on eBay for about $400 a pair.
I've looked into doing just that to get better handling and adjustability and when it's all said and done I was close enough to buying Ohlins and getting the real deal so I just settled on waiting until I save up enough.
Forks are only half the battle, you still have a crap shock on the rear too... they both effect each other equally in how a bike handles.
***EDIT***.
Yes I had seriously considered getting a set of used S1000RR fork internals and had seen a bargain on eBay listing a pair in "excellent condition" at a starting price of £40 (!!!!). Apart from asking myself why the heck they were going so cheaply I wondered if they were indeed a straight bolt-in job (like some folk seem to think). It did consider the fact that the S1000 is lighter and probably different weight balance and steering geometry, so at least stiffer springs might be needed (fair point re damping too, Lost) . I called my friendly BMW dealer and they advised caution as the S1000 forks had undergone several incremental modifications over the years and so far they had not seen conclusive proof that S1000 internals for the 9T forks is a viable modification. I decided to leave this option well alone for the moment!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,222 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Just to clarify that I'm not looking for a massive improvement in handling excellence (the 9T is already good in stock form) but would just like to have a bit less dive and stability when on the brakes.

I seem to recall that Ohlins fork springs are 10% stiffer than OEM and am wondering if these springs combined with Ohlins reommended oil would offer an improvement in these areas. I can't see Ohlins selling something that would make the bike perform worse than what OEM suspension offers......
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,220 Posts
Just to clarify that I'm not looking for a massive improvement in handling excellence (the 9T is already good in stock form) but would just like to have a bit less dive and stability when on the brakes.

I seem to recall that Ohlins fork springs are 10% stiffer than OEM and am wondering if these springs combined with Ohlins reommended oil would offer an improvement in these areas. I can't see Ohlins selling something that would make the bike perform worse than what OEM suspension offers......
Yes, those springs would improve dive and throttle pickup, but IMO would impact comfort and already jittery front. With suspension it is difficult to both have your cake and eat it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
636 Posts
Just to clarify that I'm not looking for a massive improvement in handling excellence (the 9T is already good in stock form) but would just like to have a bit less dive and stability when on the brakes.

I seem to recall that Ohlins fork springs are 10% stiffer than OEM and am wondering if these springs combined with Ohlins reommended oil would offer an improvement in these areas. I can't see Ohlins selling something that would make the bike perform worse than what OEM suspension offers......
If you put Ohlins springs and fluid in the forks and played around with the rear shock (likely add a little preload to balance out the slight stiffening of the front), probably would be an overall improvement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Dave,

Worthy of a call to

ECS SUSPENSION SERVICES,
58 WILSON PLACE, NERSTON IND EST,
EAST KILBRIDE.
G74 4QD
01355 260 900

They have a fully qualified K-tech technician, Russell Brown. He has a workshop in Chapleton. He serviced the ohlins on my Ducati Multistrada 1100S. I cannot recommend him enough. Russell also rides in the Superstock 600. In short there is nothing he doesn't know about shocks.

Link for some more info on Russell.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ru22ell
 
1 - 20 of 148 Posts
Top