Hilltop Motorcycles ECU Remap?
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DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER PLEASE.
I've been looking around for more info about Hilltop and found a group who are challenging the validity of Hilltop tunes.
Regardless of your view ... there is a group of tuners who own dynos that will offer free dyno runs to validate your Hilltop Tune.
If you're happy with yours - great.
If you're not sure - you can test it .. preferably before and after.
Treetop Tuning: Nick Underwood www.roadandraceperformance.co.uk
Gary Donohue www.mototuning.ie
Chris Steedman www.cjsracing.co.uk
Dave Wood www.davewoodracing.com
Darren Mcvilly www.ecuwest.com.au
David Edgecome www.dynobike.com.au
Bren www.brentuning.com
@BaldyDave FYI
I've been looking around for more info about Hilltop and found a group who are challenging the validity of Hilltop tunes.
Regardless of your view ... there is a group of tuners who own dynos that will offer free dyno runs to validate your Hilltop Tune.
If you're happy with yours - great.
If you're not sure - you can test it .. preferably before and after.
Treetop Tuning: Nick Underwood www.roadandraceperformance.co.uk
Gary Donohue www.mototuning.ie
Chris Steedman www.cjsracing.co.uk
Dave Wood www.davewoodracing.com
Darren Mcvilly www.ecuwest.com.au
David Edgecome www.dynobike.com.au
Bren www.brentuning.com
@BaldyDave FYI
There's more available ... what they claim to be independent dyno runs before and after FT tune.
Sounds cool but I'm still not totally sold 100 percent. But HT has had mixed reviews. It's easy to talk trash about another company and sound big on the internet. I wonder if they could come into the forum and work with us?
I'll happily ask ..
Go to Hilltop and you can read plenty of happy customer testimonials - which I'm very pleased to read.
Treetop will provide a completely counter point of view - mentioning the before dyno run done at partial throttle and final dyno run just done at 100%.
There are concerns they don't show any AFR data which even to a lay person would seem a fairly important measure.
Go to Hilltop and you can read plenty of happy customer testimonials - which I'm very pleased to read.
Treetop will provide a completely counter point of view - mentioning the before dyno run done at partial throttle and final dyno run just done at 100%.
There are concerns they don't show any AFR data which even to a lay person would seem a fairly important measure.
Hi All. I had my R9T 'mapped' at HT back in January. Just had an independent Dyno check. I must say, the AFR of the check worries me - I'm going to need a power commander or suchlike to get this sorted out, but first I'll be visiting HT for a face to face to see what they propose to do about it. I'm running lean 'off the scale' at about 3300RPM.
Watch this space...
Watch this space...
Let the
You've probably already seen this ... here's a good summary of tuning options from @Manyakus
www.ninetowners.com
See attachment here : https://www.ninetowners.com/threads/which-ecu-remap-is-the-best-pre-2017-bikes.139137/post-1026895
Fingers crossed you get your money back...
You've probably already seen this ... here's a good summary of tuning options from @Manyakus
Which ECU remap is the best? (pre 2017 bikes)
So with all the options available now, which ECU mapping seems to be the best? Or what are the pros and cons of the different ECU mapping suppliers?
www.ninetowners.com
See attachment here : https://www.ninetowners.com/threads/which-ecu-remap-is-the-best-pre-2017-bikes.139137/post-1026895
Mine's a 2017 model, but thanks anyway.Let the
Fingers crossed you get your money back...
You've probably already seen this ... here's a good summary of tuning options from @Manyakus
Which ECU remap is the best? (pre 2017 bikes)
So with all the options available now, which ECU mapping seems to be the best? Or what are the pros and cons of the different ECU mapping suppliers?
See attachment here : https://www.ninetowners.com/threads/which-ecu-remap-is-the-best-pre-2017-bikes.139137/post-1026895
You didn't get a "re-map" from Hilltop, you had new software added to your ECU.
There are unfortunately a group of people who don't understand how CPUs and ECUs work who are trying to suggest Hilltop don't do anything. One feature he's been adding for years is the fact that his software is not activated until the front wheel is turning. This I guess was historically to stop BMW detecting it and refusing a warranty claim. But this also means a dyno that is not aware of this will be measuring the base calibration BMW put on the bike. This is very lean and is almost certainly what you're measuring.
What Hilltop do is change the software in the base ECU, not the manufacturer or bike specific settings. This is similar to changing the base band configuration in an Android phone - below the Android OS and below anything Samsung would be changing.
On my 2014 R9T which BMW crippled for some reason, the Hilltop software makes a fantastic difference, much more torque, much more power and it's smoother - the engine is simply getting the fuel (and change in timing) it's needing so it can operate efficiently. He's not creating power, just releasing what the engine ought to produce had BMW not had to strangle it to meet new vehicle emissions tests.
There are unfortunately a group of people who don't understand how CPUs and ECUs work who are trying to suggest Hilltop don't do anything. One feature he's been adding for years is the fact that his software is not activated until the front wheel is turning. This I guess was historically to stop BMW detecting it and refusing a warranty claim. But this also means a dyno that is not aware of this will be measuring the base calibration BMW put on the bike. This is very lean and is almost certainly what you're measuring.
What Hilltop do is change the software in the base ECU, not the manufacturer or bike specific settings. This is similar to changing the base band configuration in an Android phone - below the Android OS and below anything Samsung would be changing.
On my 2014 R9T which BMW crippled for some reason, the Hilltop software makes a fantastic difference, much more torque, much more power and it's smoother - the engine is simply getting the fuel (and change in timing) it's needing so it can operate efficiently. He's not creating power, just releasing what the engine ought to produce had BMW not had to strangle it to meet new vehicle emissions tests.
And who might this be ? Or are you simply repeating the nonsense that's been doing the rounds in the internet from the jealous and ignorant ?
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You are Geoff
and I claim my free pint.
My GSA LC was Hilltopped, a close friend has the same model (collected from the same dealer on the same day not that it's relevant). I "thought" I could feel an improvement. My mate Paul and I switched bikes while away on tour in Europe this year, he was expecting a difference, as was I, no difference in the performance at all. So when I got back to UK, the ECU was read out, a full Hex dump of the ECU (done with an Alientech), in essence everything was stock, so a placebo.
There is no smoke without fire, and what I now expect, as happens on UKGSer or has happened on The Rev Counter, is fake accounts will wake up and the process of confusion and disinformation will follow.
I will happily offer my GSA out to be tested, it was "tuned" on a UKGSer group buy in October 2017.
and I claim my free pint.My GSA LC was Hilltopped, a close friend has the same model (collected from the same dealer on the same day not that it's relevant). I "thought" I could feel an improvement. My mate Paul and I switched bikes while away on tour in Europe this year, he was expecting a difference, as was I, no difference in the performance at all. So when I got back to UK, the ECU was read out, a full Hex dump of the ECU (done with an Alientech), in essence everything was stock, so a placebo.
There is no smoke without fire, and what I now expect, as happens on UKGSer or has happened on The Rev Counter, is fake accounts will wake up and the process of confusion and disinformation will follow.
I will happily offer my GSA out to be tested, it was "tuned" on a UKGSer group buy in October 2017.
It is an interesting discussion and one where clearly some customers feel no discernible benefit from a visit to Hilltop and others do.
I sit in the latter camp.
Why the inconsistency ? No idea, but if paid the money and didn't feel a benefit I'd be the first to pitch up and chat it through with Geoff.
If you look at other bike model / make forums you see the same inconsistency, some very happy customers, some not happy at all claiming no discernible difference.
The issue is the inconsistency of the benefit in my view and that's why this discussion will run and run...
I sit in the latter camp.
Why the inconsistency ? No idea, but if paid the money and didn't feel a benefit I'd be the first to pitch up and chat it through with Geoff.
If you look at other bike model / make forums you see the same inconsistency, some very happy customers, some not happy at all claiming no discernible difference.
The issue is the inconsistency of the benefit in my view and that's why this discussion will run and run...
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667 Posts
Fascinating thread. I’ll be following this closely.
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270 Posts
I’m interested, what bike did you have done? Do you have before and after dyno runs with afr readings on both?It is an interesting discussion and one where clearly some customers feel no discernible benefit from a visit to Hilltop and others do.
I sit in the latter camp.
Why the inconsistency ? No idea, but if paid the money and didn't feel a benefit I'd be the first to pitch up and chat it through with Geoff.
If you look at other bike model / make forums you see the same inconsistency, some very happy customers, some not happy at all claiming no discernible difference.
The issue is the inconsistency of the benefit in my view and that's why this discussion will run and run...
Like I mentioned, there was a full hex dump done of my ECU and that confirms that everything is stock.
I probably had an ECU reset and seeing the impressive dyno graphs convinced me in my head that there was an improvement, but then riding an identical bike back to back, I felt no difference, the guy riding mine thought mine was a little less responsive, but his had more miles on it than mine.
Mine is going to be off to an independent dyno shop in spring, and run back to back with another stock GSA, that will be interesting.
Well,
If you dyno it you'll need to have the front wheel turning or it'll use the stock software without Geoff's kit being connected. Or you could try to fix that by triggering the front ABS sensor from the rear, worth trying.
It's very interesting you could notice no change because a friend of mine with I think a 2019 GS LC (Not GSA) said there was a very useful improvement. I wonder if BMW use different calibrations on different bikes ? Or perhaps yours has a newer ECU than Geoff had seen before ? Did you go back to Geoff and get him to have a look ?
If you dyno it you'll need to have the front wheel turning or it'll use the stock software without Geoff's kit being connected. Or you could try to fix that by triggering the front ABS sensor from the rear, worth trying.
There are always people who claim they can't tell the difference after some work has been done on their car or bike. Some people are expecting too much, others don't know what to look for and others might have a faulty bike or a different ECU which is in some way limiting or preventing the upgrade working. ALL tuners have had experiences like this not just Hilltop. BSD have stories like this to tell and nobody is questioning his integrity.You are Geoff
My GSA LC was Hilltopped, a close friend has the same model (collected from the same dealer on the same day not that it's relevant). I "thought" I could feel an improvement. My mate Paul and I switched bikes while away on tour in Europe this year, he was expecting a difference, as was I, no difference in the performance at all. So when I got back to UK, the ECU was read out, a full Hex dump of the ECU (done with an Alientech), in essence everything was stock, so a placebo.
There is no smoke without fire, and what I now expect, as happens on UKGSer or has happened on The Rev Counter, is fake accounts will wake up and the process of confusion and disinformation will follow.
I will happily offer my GSA out to be tested, it was "tuned" on a UKGSer group buy in October 2017.
So there are idiots, there are people with expectations way over what's physically possible and there are faulty/different systems - but these are all way lower than the positive comments people have given Hilltop. After all, you must have read sufficient comments to persuade you to go there.
It was me who went to the rev counter having been recommended to go there for lively bike chat, only to find another thread slagging off Hilltop from his competitors. The smoke was generated by his competitors, not customers.
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270 Posts
I smell fish...... this fish is not fresh.
If it had been an ecu that was new or that they could not tune, how did the dyno run show a 20bho ish increase and better torque after the software was “loaded”?
Emailed and no response, called, someone answered and promised a call back. Never happened. This was done in late 2017, and discovered early last year after riding identical bikes back to back.
Full hex dump of the ECU shows everything is stock, and the front wheel turning is smoke and mirrors, that excuse was used with an F800 that had no front wheel sensor, so how would the magical software know the front wheel was turning?
I am writing my cash off, but am on a mission to make sure others don’t get suckered in. The Hex dump, not done by Treetop BTW, is a good indicator and then full data logging and back to back dyno runs with an identical bike should be comprehensive enough proof.
PS, I’ve read your posts on TRC and I am convinced you are actually one of Geoffs famous fake profiles....... any minute now Bayriche will be along
If it had been an ecu that was new or that they could not tune, how did the dyno run show a 20bho ish increase and better torque after the software was “loaded”?
Emailed and no response, called, someone answered and promised a call back. Never happened. This was done in late 2017, and discovered early last year after riding identical bikes back to back.
Full hex dump of the ECU shows everything is stock, and the front wheel turning is smoke and mirrors, that excuse was used with an F800 that had no front wheel sensor, so how would the magical software know the front wheel was turning?
I am writing my cash off, but am on a mission to make sure others don’t get suckered in. The Hex dump, not done by Treetop BTW, is a good indicator and then full data logging and back to back dyno runs with an identical bike should be comprehensive enough proof.
PS, I’ve read your posts on TRC and I am convinced you are actually one of Geoffs famous fake profiles....... any minute now Bayriche will be along
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