Questions after test ride

718 Views 19 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Forest, 4 h ago

SteveNorCal

Discussion Starter · 13 d ago

I decided to buy a R9T Pure for all the obvious reasons (style, sound, seating position, stability, overall quality, power), but then I test rode one and am left with some questions before I purchase. My apologies if this is old hat for members of this forum. I absolutely love most things about the bike, but found the shifting unusual given that I'm used to the snick-snick of my Triumph with a slipper clutch. When I would downshift, the bike sometimes would lurch and the tires would squeal. The salesman suggested that I was pulling the clutch in too far, although I used the clutch the same way I always do. The lack of a tach and gear indicator didn't help. It seemed hard to smoothly downshift and the bike often felt like it wanted to stall. I'm sure it's user error, but I've been riding for a few years and ridden a number of bikes and never had such a tough time getting the feel of it. Granted, it was only a short test ride, but I wondered whether others experienced the same thing and whether it's a quick learning curve. I read one review that seemed to confirm my experience. I'm looking for constructive advice rather than posts explaining that I'm an idiot

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fmdualexhaust

· #2 · 13 d ago

You won't get snick-snick on a BMW. The newer ones are better than the old ones.
Gear changes do get better with miles.
Slightly preloading the shift lever before changing gears helps.

As for your lurch and squeal, It sounds like you are not properly rev matching to match the gear .

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Vectorbug

· #3 · 13 d ago

Single plate dry clutch. You're pulling in the shift lever just fine, you're simply letting it out too abruptly / aggressively for where the revs are with the engine - that is to say, the shaft sticking out of the engine that the clutch connects to is spinning with too much inertia and then you're suddenly reintroducing the transmission which is spinning at a different speed (thats how transmissions work, right?).

Slipper-clutches are bathed in oil, so they mask bad shifts and allow you to dump the clutch with minimal feedback.

Feather the clutch a little more when you're letting go of the lever. Just go slower with your decelerations and down-shifts until you're used to the personality of the machine. It will reward you for proper rev-matches, and it will punish you when you mess up.

The transmission likes it when you rev match, like heel-toe in a car. You will get used to it. Probably. It's not that hard and you're not an idiot

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BlitzSchnell

· #4 · 13 d ago

Vectorbug said:
Single plate dry clutch. You're pulling in the shift lever just fine, you're simply letting it out too abruptly / aggressively for where the revs are with the engine - that is to say, the shaft sticking out of the engine that the clutch connects to is spinning with too much inertia and then you're suddenly reintroducing the transmission which is spinning at a different speed (thats how transmissions work, right?).

Slipper-clutches are bathed in oil, so they mask bad shifts and allow you to dump the clutch with minimal feedback.

Feather the clutch a little more when you're letting go of the lever. Just go slower with your decelerations and down-shifts until you're used to the personality of the machine. It will reward you for proper rev-matches, and it will punish you when you mess up.

The transmission likes it when you rev match, like heel-toe in a car. You will get used to it. Probably. It's not that hard and you're not an idiot

GearBox….. Probably the most difficult to master on a Beemer in general …. So very tight when new … VERY utilitarian in nature but designed for many many many miles with out flaw … that trans won’t get close to being broken in for 5 to 10K miles. It gets better and better instead of worse and worse. I use my clutch to start and stop … shifting up and down clutch-less after second gear is easy when you listen to the revs and become “one with the machine” It just takes a bit of practice and allowing the trans time to break in. Both the piston rings (oil consumption) and transmission stiffness take much longer than any bike I’ve owned to break in. But then they last so much longer than other bikes do too … patience and practice my friend. 👍🏻 …………. Blitz

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TimC

· #5 · 13 d ago (Edited)

No doubt, there is a bit of a learning curve to this bike. My only bike for 14 years was a slick-shifting 6th generation Honda VFR800 (aka Interceptor). The day I bought my Pure, I test rode it and a liquid-cooled BMW R1200R, which is more refined. The next day I rode the new bike home from Michigan (where I had bought it), which was a 360-mile ride. It was a great way to get to know my new machine, and it was pretty different. The R9T's gearbox seems much more stout and takes a little more effort to shift, but it's really just a matter of getting used to it.

As for the lurching, I think this boxer holds its revs a little more than the average motorcycle engine. Releasing the clutch just a bit slower will help, but blipping the throttle helps more. Most of the time when downshifting, I blip the throttle a bit while releasing the clutch lever and the result is pretty smooth downshifts, with very little jerkiness. I hardly have to even think about it now; it's pretty much automatic.

Two other things about the gearbox:

This bike doesn't really like upshifting more than one gear at a time with the clutch lever pulled. It's not that you can't do it, because I do on occasion, but the bike just works a little better shifting sequentially rather than 2-3 gears at a time. Downshifting a couple gears at a time works fine, but even this takes just a bit more effort than my Honda ever did. (Credit to @BlitzSchnell for this observation, as I'm pretty sure it was he who tipped me to the upshifting thing a couple years ago. )
I am going to disagree with Blitz on one thing: Clutch-less shifting on this bike is pretty bad in my opinion. I've tried it once or twice and it's awful. I could kind of get away with it on my old Honda, but not on this Beemer. Now, to be honest, I haven't tried it for a long time. With my bike now at 19,000 miles, maybe the gearbox is broken in enough for clutch-less shifting to work now, but it's just not for me.

All this stuff...to me it's just part of the bike's character. Call them quirks if you like, but once you're used to them it just seems normal. At least it does to me.

By the way, @SteveNorCal ...When you have a moment it would be great if you posted an introduction in that section of the forum!

www.ninetowners.com

New Member Introductions

Are you new to our forum? Post up and introduce yourself! No technical questions please.

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Clarkson

· #6 · 13 d ago

BlitzSchnell said:
GearBox….. Probably the most difficult to master on a Beemer in general …. So very tight when new … VERY utilitarian in nature but designed for many many many miles with out flaw … that trans won’t get close to being broken in for 5 to 10K miles. It gets better and better instead of worse and worse. I use my clutch to start and stop … shifting up and down clutch-less after second gear is easy when you listen to the revs and become “one with the machine” It just takes a bit of practice and allowing the trans time to break in. Both the piston rings (oil consumption) and transmission stiffness take much longer than any bike I’ve owned to break in. But then they last so much longer than other bikes do too … patience and practice my friend. 👍🏻 …………. Blitz

I'm impressed that you upshift and downshift with no clutch on this bike, Blitz! I tried several times but I got a vibe from the bike that it did not like it at all. I used an old Moto Guzzi with a broken clutch cable during a military parade back in 92 (for our swear-in ceremony) so I know my way around this trick, but on the Beemer it's a different story...respect man!

Reactions: 2

tarby

· #7 · 13 d ago

SteveNorCal said:
I decided to buy a R9T Pure for all the obvious reasons (style, sound, seating position, stability, overall quality, power), but then I test rode one and am left with some questions before I purchase. My apologies if this is old hat for members of this forum. I absolutely love most things about the bike, but found the shifting unusual given that I'm used to the snick-snick of my Triumph with a slipper clutch. When I would downshift, the bike sometimes would lurch and the tires would squeal. The salesman suggested that I was pulling the clutch in too far, although I used the clutch the same way I always do. The lack of a tach and gear indicator didn't help. It seemed hard to smoothly downshift and the bike often felt like it wanted to stall. I'm sure it's user error, but I've been riding for a few years and ridden a number of bikes and never had such a tough time getting the feel of it. Granted, it was only a short test ride, but I wondered whether others experienced the same thing and whether it's a quick learning curve. I read one review that seemed to confirm my experience. I'm looking for constructive advice rather than posts explaining that I'm an idiot .

Go with what your heart says. Ain't that what makes biking?

Reactions: 1

Chris<CJ>

· #8 · 13 d ago

My experience ....
After 2000 km on the odo, I was able to do clutchless upshifts. With rev matching lurching with downshifts was not an issue.
In fact, I found this g/b easier to use than a previous shaft drive cruiser of Japanese origin that I previously owned.

Couple of things to keep in mind,

this is a shaft final drive
the clutch is SDP
the actuation is hydraulic

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Chris.

· #9 · 13 d ago

You'll get used to it.. although i got used to it 10km after riding the bike.

The BMW R nine T has somehwat of an Agricultural gearbox.. you gotta man handle it a bit.
Rev matching will help the "surge" when you downshift.. and if you dont want to do that for the first bit; try letting out the clutch slower at lower RPM's. That way the revs dont shoot up and causing a surge. Beware; you could aswell make the rear wheel lock up when letting go at too high RPM.. there's nothing that prevents this; so take it easy.

The R nine T can be ridden smooth as butter once you get used to it.

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JeffsBMW

· #10 · 13 d ago

If it doesn't clunk and gets a little can-tank- cares then there might be something wrong. The dry clutch, non syncro transmission stuff might cause concern with some potential owners, you have either like it or send it down the road if you don't like the clunky but very very reliable transmission on these bikes.

Check back in in a month or two (3,000) miles and a complete fluid change.

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BlitzSchnell

· #11 · 13 d ago (Edited)

There’s a bunch of very good information above. I want to say it took me a great deal of practice to get comfortable clutch less shifting … probably a year before it became second nature to me. The transmission is so beefy it took my abuse with no trouble, @Chris. is right again. Although “agricultural” is not a term you often hear associated with fine motorcycles … in this case it applies … I’d also add to the description ..that its as very hard to break. Blipping the throttle to match the ground speed is the key to smooth shifting down and then feeling when the engines pull is neutralized by backing off on the throttle just enough once you’ve wound it up.. it let’s the trans almost shift itself up. Is there a “clunk” ? …only when your timing is off. When you get used to it it’s as smooth as it can be. If this technique interests you start working with the higher gears first 5th to 6th. They are the most forgiving … once you’re comfortable in that range add 4th and again practice till it feels good … work your way down.
Be aware the lower range is more and more unforgiving the lower you get. It takes some focus so do your practicing alone and not in traffic. Don’t get in a hurry. This is not speed shifting, in fact it’s very lazy and slow and calm, you can’t be in a hurry. You’ll get smoother and smoother as you practice. Understand this behavior is not recommended by me or BMW and there’s no guarantee you won’t harm your transmission. I’ve been practicing this behavior on all my bikes for a very long time now, especially when the clutch goes out … so I have developed a “feel” for the timing. It’s all about the sound of the engine and the feel of your ground speed … if you try, take your time and understand … I only take responsibility for me and my machine. It will always be risky but IMO BMW is tough enough if you’re not careless about your effort. The reward is knowing and feeling comfortable with the option ……… Cheers ……….. Blitz

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JustABill

· #12 · 13 d ago

I also had a few rear wheel squeaks and a solid squeal once when downshifting. To put it more simply, if the motor is at low RPM and you let the clutch out quickly, then you're slamming on an engine brake. It is a bit alarming if you're not expecting it. It happened to me as I was coming off a high-speed roadway and was looking to zip into my neighborhood. Each time, I spent more time on the clutch (probably paying attention to some cross traffic) which allowed the motor to slow down too much.

In my view, even though these are very modern bikes overall, they retain a bit of quirkiness and character from the old school. The do require a little finesse at times. You need to be a bit more technical with it. You will absolutely get used to it quickly.

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Chopper_Bob

· #13 · 13 d ago (Edited by Moderator)

I went from a Harley to this bike....

I have a heel toe shifter on the Harley, always kiccking it down and up, with a cable clutch.

This bike shifts so much nicer!!! It feels really different with the hydraulic clutch... although I do let the clutch out too quickly sometimes which stalls the engine in 1st gear.

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K9F

· #14 · 13 d ago

Six weeks into ownership, first ever experience of a shaft driven bike in over 45 years or riding and it must be said this is the smoothest bike for shifting gears I have ever ridden and I do have a tendency to lean on the gas. Changing up swiftly it is almost like having a quick-shifter it is so slick. Engine braking is a little more than I was used to. Your technique is off and you need to change your riding style or find another belt or chain driven bike that's all.

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TimC

· #15 · 13 d ago

Chris. said:
The BMW R nine T has somewhat of an Agricultural gearbox.. you gotta man handle it a bit.

"Agricultural" is a great descriptor for the R9T's engine, too. I often think of it as tractor-like. Almost kind of primitive - the way it runs and sounds, especially at idle and low revs - but to me that's a huge part of this bike's charm. It's a modern bike with an old engine. I love it!

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gene_apodaca

· #16 · 12 d ago (Edited)

TimC said:
"Agricultural" is a great descriptor for the R9T's engine, too. I often think of it as tractor-like.

When the Yamaha TW200 was first introduced, it was labeled as an agricultural machine. They also tend to run forever and are hard to kill. However, considering the history and longevity of the older boxer designs, I agree ours are the true tractors of the motorcycle world. Faster and smoother, but still tractors. A sporty John Deere if you will.

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BlitzSchnell

· #17 · 12 d ago

gene_apodaca said:
When the Yamaha YW200 was first introduced, it was labeled as an agricultural machine. They also tend to run forever and are hard to kill. However, considering the history and longevity of the older boxer designs, I agree ours are the true tractors of the motorcycle world. Faster and smoother, but still tractors. A sporty John Deere if you will.

🎯….. and enough torque to pull a plow through dry sod with out working up a sweat …. ………………….. Blitz 🤣 🚽🦌 (Jon-deer)

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FunkTion29

· #18 · 5 d ago

I'll echo what many others are saying here. It takes some getting used to, but pays off. The rev matching, and 'blipping' really help with downshifting. You don't really need a Tach or Speedo for that matter, just listening and feeling the engine will be enough to help you shift better. It's a bit more mechanical, and a bit more precise, but you will be rewarded once you and the bike become one. I still think back to my first test ride, compared to a week of ownership, to now almost 2 years later and it's better and better, and we are becoming one!

Also, the jerking/squeal when downshifting is probably the ABS of the rear. I still feel my rear brake engage AWS on occasion when I try to downshift/slow a bit more than I should be. These engines/transmissions are more like semi/tractor/plane than a passenger car/or modern bike. (which is refreshing, but takes a bit getting used to.).

all in all I'd say go for it, you won't be disappointed, and once you're comfortable/mastered it you'll appreciate the ride all the more.

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Norbi

· #19 · 5 d ago

TimC said:
"Agricultural" is a great descriptor for the R9T's engine, too. I often think of it as tractor-like. Almost kind of primitive - the way it runs and sounds, especially at idle and low revs - but to me that's a huge part of this bike's charm. It's a modern bike with an old engine. I love it!

I tried the competition - our Beamers are so much better!!!

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Forest

· #20 · 4 h ago

Hi steve,
the boxer engine is very torquey, and has significant engine braking, almost as much as using the rear brake,
the throttle position is critical for matching engine and road speed when changing gears,
your downshifts on bikes with slipper clutch, back torque limiter prevent the engine stopping the rear wheel,
this is likely to occur shifting down on a closed throttle which especially on wet roads is not ideal, slipper clutch or not, on any bike,
simply blipping the throttle and not closing it fully on down shifts is often all it needs,
the gearbox can be pretty smooth with more precise throttle control, this is something many of us having ridden older motorcycles many years ago have learned,
your comparison and findings are valid, and in no way make you an idiot,
the R9t is an involving ride and is analogue, my 2018 classic has no traction control which i prefer,
the roll on off benefit especially in twisty sweeping combination bends can be rewarding when using the engine by carefully and precisely feeding in and easing off the power very slightly even at pretty steep lean angles without de stabilising the bike with the brakes ,
All in even the newer models are still pretty back to basics old school riding in an immersive way,
the choice is go for the involvement and the fun most of us get from what it is, and the journey to achieve that,
or stay with something more forgiving that delivers what you prefer, we all like different things,
i have had many bikes including sport bikes , and still thrive on the pleasure an r 9 t can deliver when you work with it, much to the surprise of some of my riding buddies,
Safe travels,,
Forest,

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