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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi people. So I decided to start my bike and see what gs-911 have to tell about it. I looked at engine controller real time values and noticed field that never caught my attention before called "oil switch" and the value was "NOT OK". Hmm. I googled for a bit and found old thread on gs-911 forum about similar issue, and the problem was that gs-911 incorrectly interpreted some bits and it was fixed long time ago. Mind you I have latest firmware. So I decided to take matters in my own hands and disconnected wiring plug from the sensor. Started the engine. No warning lights, nothing. Gs-911 still displays "not ok". So I connected sensor plug to ground, still "not ok" and what is the most concerning is that there's no warning light or engine controller errors. Basically bike ignores this sensor. I'm shocked. Having this knowledge, how should I live my life now?

TL; DR. Even if we assume that gs-911 is incorrect at interpreting bike info, engine controller should immediately generate fault and display red triangle on a dashboard. No faults, no triangles.
 

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Hi, I checked this and you are right. I disconnected the sensor, started the engine and no warnings on the display. What to do now? Now install an additional warning light, or an oil pressure gauge?
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #5
No idea. I found the thread I was talking about, my bad it's on advrider, not gs-911 forum. GS911/ oil pressure switch anomaly
From this thread we can see that pressure sensor is shorted to ground when pressure is low and open when pressure is high. Still, I've tried shorting it to the ground while bike was running with no effect. And BMS should probably detect this sensor as faulty if ignition is ON and engine is OFF and sensor is open/disconnected.
I think that's why it was removed on 17-19 models. What was BMW thinking? I mean, my old Dnepr that is older than me has oil pressure switch working.
 

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It's not rocket science, I had a faulty sensor switch on my 1150 GS. The switch is closed when there is no oil pressure and is in series with the mass of the warning light. If there is oil pressure, the switch will open and the warning light will go out. So when the switch is disconnected it is the same as if there is no oil pressure.
Only BMW has not provided an indicator light in the display of the NineT.
But I thought this was linked to the bike computer....apparently not.:(
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Well yeah, but r1200 is not r1150, every sensor is connected to BMS/or another controller.
UPD: I guess I will have to uncover this mystery and figure out where this sensor is connected.
 

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Yes it should be, but still there is no warning on the display if the pressure sensor is disconnected
 

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There is a pressure switch with one cable connection at 2 o'clock above the oil sight glass. I don't know if the +2017 models have this too
139492
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #10
Yes, this is the switch I was talking about. No, 2nd generation models don't have it.
I'm planning to spend this evening in search to where is it connected, following the wire, testing with continuity checker. And if it's connected to BMS I will probably be able to identify messages on the CAN bus that correspond to the different states of this switch (if there is any). Though it probably won't happen today. Today I'll be lucky to find where is it connected.
 

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R1200 NineT Urban GS
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Are you sure that sensor is not instead the engine temperature one?
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, I am. Temperature sensor would have two contacts on it. If you google part number for temperature sensor (11 11 7 672 505) you will find image of it and it is clearly seen it has two contacts. This sensor has one. And besides that, temperature sensor is located on the other side of the bike, up top:
139496
 

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a guess......is there a second sensor device that needs to be open also? Or is there a piece of logic that reads a second oil pressure value. The logic might dictate that both sensors need to be satisfied in order to generate a fault. As stated the 2nd gen does not have the external electro mechanical switch. What activate the loss of oil pressure fault in these models? As the link in #5 above suggests.
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #14
s there a second sensor device that needs to be open also?
As far as i know there's none. Parts list and service manual confirms this.


What activate the loss of oil pressure fault in these models?
Nothing. And that is the main issue. We don't have a way to know if there's oil pressure. The only way to know is when your engine is seized.
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #15
I'm in the process of disassembling my bike to access engine controller. Meanwhile, here's what I have found about r1200r k27:
Haynes Manual states perhaps the oil pressure switch is used only for factory testing during production, and not part of the later 2012-2013s.

Our bike is based on k27 (i.e. same clocks) so here's an answer. Still, k25 (1200gs) has oil pressure indicator, i don't see why it's not present on our bikes.
The only question remains is if this sensor actually connected to engine controller and if yes is it read out during bike operation.
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
And the answer is... yes, it is connected, directly to the engine controller.
139502

So there is no excuse for it not working.
Question about message on a CAN bus is remaining. If there's one, we have options.
UPD: that's all news for today, I forgot to take oscilloscope probes with me, thus no way to take a peek on the bus.
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Going to visit my bike soon, meanwhile here is what I've found:
1) R1200GS wiring diagram [1]. Could've saved me yesterday's evening. Still, usable to verify some ideas i.e. i really want to replace handlebar switch-gear to the one from GS/old K bikes (one with separate buttons for left and right turn signals).
2) R1200GS has oil level sensor (!) I can't find exact location where it is installed, presumably somewhere in the front of the engine, in the cavity with oil pump and chain which drives intermediate shaft which drives camshafts.
3) We can install this sensor too, but R nineT wiring lacks electrical contacts on engine controller for it i.e. such installation will require modified R1200GS wiring; I'm not sure original engine controller connector can be disassembled to add contacts for oil level sensor wiring. Anyways probably not worth it.
4) At some point in time BMW decided to stop putting oil pressure sensors in it's bikes. Say k1600 doesn't have it too, while k1300 has such sensor. And K1600 engine is basically the same as k1300 with additional two cylinders slapped on for good measure. I don't own new water cooled R1200/R1250 so I don't have much info or knowledge about them, but as far as I can tell they lack oil presure sensor too.
I'm shaken to the ground with this discovery. I thought about buying K1600 or maybe R1250 as additional bike to travel with my gf (when this will be possible). But I cannot trust bike which won't tell me that I have run out of oil. Well, K1300 it is then.
5) Can we sue BMW for this? It's dangerous, at the very least. I had bike jammed on me and it was not fun. And I was on 350cc two stroke when this happend, can't imagine 1200cc 4-stroke to jam in the middle of the highway.
Such court case probably won't happen in Russia (although I will try to find attorney specializing in this matters after I finish this "project"), but most probably this will be possible to do in EU and maybe in the US too. Do we have lawyers among us?

[1] https://www.ninetowners.com/attachm...139537/?hash=f7c2b9a1f5e900e7e06a3daeccc6589e
 

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This diagram shows the oil level sensor of the 1200 gs
139538
 

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Personally, I'm not worried about this, the possibility that the engine of the 9T being seized is so much smaller than a two-stroke engine
 

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R nineT 2014, K1100RS 1994
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Discussion Starter #20
You absolutely right. Yet I don't want to believe that my engine is ok, I want to know it.
As for the news: trick with oscilloscope and sigrok didn't played out as well as I've hoped. I will look into other options of getting data from CAN bus into computer.
 
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