[alienbogey]

I had my 2016 R nineT dyno'd today to establish a baseline for future reference. The bike is completely stock as far as the intake, engine, exhaust. The results:

At the wheel, 98.56hp, 70.20 lb-ft torque.

I've been considering tuning and, after talking with the very well respected local tuner, here are the bullet points of what he said, some of which surprised me:

• He said that BMW has done a great job of intake, exhaust and tuning on the 9T

• The bobble that I can feel at 5,000-5,500 rpm is the exhaust flapper, which is a noise control thing

• There is very little that he can do to improve the engine's performance

• He said that if I go for a new Akra titanium header set (which is what I was thinking), delete the cat, delete that flapper valve, keep the stock Akra cans (which he said are excellent) and he spends an hour on the dyno tuning, the result will be 2-4 additional hp in return for $2,000 (U.S.) parts and labor, and the bike will be very much louder than before.

• He'd like to sell me parts and tuning services, but he doesn't think it would be worth it. If money is no object to me and I want to spend $2K to get 3% more power and obnoxious, earplugs-required sound (his words), then he'd be glad to do it.

He told me he can do great things to improve K bikes of any flavor, S1000RR's, rice bikes, etc, but there's not a lot for him to offer on a 9T because BMW did an outstanding job on it. Again, his words.

So, although I'm disappointed that he couldn't wave a magic wand to give me 25hp more, I'm glad to hear his high opinion of the power plant and now I have a lot more $$ to allocate to suspension.

 

[drotor]

I’d suggest spending $500 or so for an off the shelf tune to rich it up a bit.


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[R9Tony]

My tuner guy said the exact same thing, he said not to bother unless I really wanted to. In saying that he didnt ride it, and I cant work out what upsets the bike sometimes if its the rotational movement/character of the boxer engine (my first boxer bike) or the jerkiness in the throttle (probably both). Its an absolute tractor of a engine with 60ft/lb of torque from the get go and flat, so a smoother throttle would be appreciated.

Agree not going to ever see 25hp gains out of this without major work, and not concerned with more power just smoother fueling.

My baseline dyno for what its worth too looks very similar, if I ever work out how to share an image ill post it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7uyrado2q2r76ei/File_000 (13).jpeg?dl=0

 

[Zanderk]

I have posted this before but sometimes I know we don't / can't all see the posts as they go through so I thought I'd put it up again for reference.

The work was done at Hilltop motorcycles and my bike is running Remus headers, flapper delete and a standard silencer with baffles removed. The before and after is simply the effect of the remap. So I rode it in with the mods above already on the bike and rode it out with the reflash.

 

[OCR9T]

I'm getting more and more skeptical about Hilltop. They're the only tuner that seems to put our bikes under 90hp at the wheel stock and then their tune seems to be exaggerated

 

[stevem77]

Different regions must get different sates of tune - certainly in the UK and probably most of Western Europe, the calibration is terrible - it's done to meet EU3/4 emissions requirements which means it runs very lean - Hilltop resolve the lean running which is where most of the additional power comes from. They also advance the timing slightly. Mine had 101 bhp at the wheel afterwards - which is probably the same as yours allowing for margin for error - so perhaps the US R9T isn't castrated like the European models ?

I've yet to see any meaningful power increase quoted for removing the catalyst either, at least in European models.

 

[stevem77]

I'm getting more and more skeptical about Hilltop. They're the only tuner that seems to put our bikes under 90hp at the wheel stock and then their tune seems to be exaggerated

Try a stock EU3 bike before you say that . . . ! You cant assume the USA and EU EU3 bikes are the same.

 

[OCR9T]

Try a stock EU3 bike before you say that . . . ! You cant assume the USA and EU EU3 bikes are the same.

That's a good point. I honestly thought the tune would be the same but I could be completely wrong

 

[318]

My UK '16, with Remus downpipes, Cat delete, flapper delete was something like 93bhp pre rr, 97bhp post rr, having fitted a power Commander. I'm kicking myself - I could have had 120 if I'd gone to Hilltop!

 

[JohnT]

• The bobble that I can feel at 5,000-5,500 rpm is the exhaust flapper, which is a noise control thing

• There is very little that he can do to improve the engine's performance

• He'd like to sell me parts and tuning services, but he doesn't think it would be worth it. If money is no object to me and I want to spend $2K to get 3% more power and obnoxious, earplugs-required sound (his words), then he'd be glad to do it.

1. The flapper is open any time the throttle is more than about 40% open. On your (full throttle) dyno run it was open the whole time. The 5,000 - 5,500 rpm glitch you see is NOT the flapper.

2. Find another tuner.

3. Mine was obnoxious loud with Remus catless headers and the stock Akra cans. Most of the muffling is from the cat. The stock Akra cans are just straight thru glass packs. And they have BIG straight thru holes... I ended up with a Yoshimura can with its' DB killer installed. That gave an acceptable noise level.

I'm running Bren Tunings flash. A 93 octane (USA (R+M)/2) version. I have their hand held so I can run back to back, stock vs flashed. There is a night and day difference between their flash and stock.

No way I would put mine back to stock. Just FWIW.

 

[alienbogey]

1.
3. Mine was obnoxious loud with Remus catless headers and the stock Akra cans. Most of the muffling is from the cat. The stock Akra cans are just straight thru glass packs. And they have BIG straight thru holes... I ended up with a Yoshimura can with its' DB killer installed. That gave an acceptable noise level.

He did say that most of the muffling was done by the cat.

 

[Dirtybiker]

1.
3. Mine was obnoxious loud with Remus catless headers and the stock Akra cans. Most of the muffling is from the cat. The stock Akra cans are just straight thru glass packs. And they have BIG straight thru holes... I ended up with a Yoshimura can with its' DB killer installed. That gave an acceptable noise level.

He did say that most of the muffling was done by the cat.

Yep I agree with this.
I'm fitted titanium Akropovic cat less headers on my Urban and the volume went up considerably. I then changed the end can for a custom can but it was way too loud. So I refitted the standard Urban can but with the DB Killer cut out of it.
It was okay but still a bit too loud so I've now refitted the DB Killer in the standard can with the Akro headers and it's nice and throaty but not obnoxious.
I will fabricate a DB Killer for the custom can and try some comparasions. Re map tomorrow so will let you know how it goes.
I'll be leaving the flapper in for now but may remove it later.
DB

 

[BoxerFan]

I had my 2016 R nineT dyno'd today to establish a baseline for future reference. The bike is completely stock as far as the intake, engine, exhaust. The results:
.

Thanks for posting - I find this really interesting.


I'd be curious about how many of you are riding your RnineT around at 7-8K RPMs. I could see that on an RR, but I love the low rumble of my bike, and I honestly do most of my riding in the 5-6K range. I'm never getting anywhere near the 98 BHP out of my bike, because I simply don't operate it at that part of the spectrum.

 

[JohnT]

I'd be curious about how many of you are riding your RnineT around at 7-8K RPMs. I could see that on an RR, but I love the low rumble of my bike, and I honestly do most of my riding in the 5-6K range.

I agree. I'm usually under 6,000 rpm, (it's called keeping a license...) so I guess that means I have 85ish hp I'm mostly using. BUT, the 6,000 to 8,500 rpm range is available and FUN. The mods and flash do make the bike much more responsive, nicer running, more fun to ride even observing a 6,000 rpm "redline".

 

[stevem77]

My UK '16, with Remus downpipes, Cat delete, flapper delete was something like 93bhp pre rr, 97bhp post rr, having fitted a power Commander. I'm kicking myself - I could have had 120 if I'd gone to Hilltop!

With 4bhp increase I doubt you can tell the difference ? 4bhp is within the margin of error for a chassis dyno, so you may not have gained anything with your Remus header and power commander. If that happened at Hilltop at least you'd get your money back.

 

[Dolemite]

Curious if anyone has done a dyno after installing a rapid bike race. Wonder if you get equivalent increase to the hilltop.


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[stevem77]

Thanks for posting - I find this really interesting.


I'd be curious about how many of you are riding your RnineT around at 7-8K RPMs. I could see that on an RR, but I love the low rumble of my bike, and I honestly do most of my riding in the 5-6K range. I'm never getting anywhere near the 98 BHP out of my bike, because I simply don't operate it at that part of the spectrum.

I do - you have to in order to make good progress. But the stock suspension isn’t up to the task of controlling the bike when you do which makes it difficult if you’ve not replaced it.

The engine is great fun either bumbling around at 3k to 5k or when pushing on a bit

 

[318]

My UK '16, with Remus downpipes, Cat delete, flapper delete was something like 93bhp pre rr, 97bhp post rr, having fitted a power Commander. I'm kicking myself - I could have had 120 if I'd gone to Hilltop!

With 4bhp increase I doubt you can tell the difference ? 4bhp is within the margin of error for a chassis dyno, so you may not have gained anything with your Remus header and power commander. If that happened at Hilltop at least you'd get your money back.

Or I'd be brandishing a piece of paper showing a 26% increase in power and not asking for a refund...

PC V has given me a smoother bike, more enjoyable and easier to ride both slowly and swiftly.

 

[stevem77]

Or I'd be brandishing a piece of paper showing a 26% increase in power and not asking for a refund...

PC V has given me a smoother bike, more enjoyable and easier to ride both slowly and swiftly.

You won't get get 26% more power, but you do need to ask why you only saw a difference of 4bhp when all boxer engines in the 04-17 range on the R1200GS, R1200R and R9T see much more than that from Hilltop, from BSD in Peterborough and the other company who's name escapes me right now.

They all offer significant gains across the rev range for the same reason, none of them are performing rocket science - they are all simply correcting a situation BMW are in by continuing with an air cooled engine with big pistons in a world which really means they need water cooling and small pistons to get more even and efficient burn for lower emissions. You might also guess that this is the reason there are limited gains to be had on the K1300S and other 4 cyl water cooled engines.

If you want to go another way and get a Power Commander and a calibration session on a dyno then that's up to you but until you get work done by Hilltop, or BSD or anybody else, don't slag off their work as you can't possibly know what you're talking about.

 

[JohnT]

You won't get get 26% more power...

So you're saying that we can't or shouldn't believe the dyno results Hilltop sends you away with after they dyno your bike, flash the ECU, dyno it again and charge you for doing it?