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BMW R NIne T 2016
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11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Matris MB329.3KD rear shock finally arrived last week (13 weeks to Oz) Just adding my observations to the very comprehensive suspension forum.

- The build quality is spectacular. Compared to the usual suspects, Matris tends to fly under the radar when it comes to suspension manufacturers...what a mistake!
I've had Wilbers and Ohlins gear in other bikes. Wilbers got my money once, but they wont get any more. My mate's father was the licensed distributor for several well-known brands
of motorcycle equipment (that will remain nameless). He toured the Ohlins factory a few years ago during an industry junket in Europe. I remember him saying there is an
Ohlins factory,,,and then there is an Ohlins factory. There's a big difference between the products available to us mortals and the gear supplied to racing teams (Although, you wouldn't
think so considering the way Ohlins price their gear)

- The dark art of suspension will remain a mystery to all but a select few. Always has, always will...so us mortals MUST consult the masters

- Terry Hayes of 'Shock Treatment' (on the outskirts of Sydney) is a true master. Professional advice, real-world experience and one of the nicest workshops I've ever seen. You're
welcome to watch the work being done on your bike and the mechanics are friendly and professional...no apprentices! I had the rear shock fitted and the front forks overhauled with
new springs, valves, seals etc. in less than 4 hours

- The suspension upgrade to my 2016 Roadster is the single most transformative experience I've had in almost 35 years of bike riding. I know opinions on this topic vary widely...But I
I would happily swap the Rapid Bike unit, hyperpro steering damper, Kineo wheels, and every piece of carbon fiber and bling for this modification. (Fortunately, I don't have to). The OEM stuff did the job...I learnt to trust that the bike would hold its line, but the stock suspension is really only marginally better than sticks with some chewing gum on each end

- Now, the rear tire stays on the ground, the bike doesn't dive or lurch when shutting off the throttle and the progressive damping feels like riding on a cloud around the city and on rails when you wick things up.

Most of us would expect that manufacturers select their bike parts after doing extensive testing and data analysis to find the ideal 'standard' for their intended market. In reality, its a result of choosing the middle priced option from the tender process. And what is the 'standard' market anyway...6' 1" and 100 kgs or 5' 9" and 80 kgs? So the whole idea of 'standard' is flawed. (Wouldn't it be brilliant if all new bikes came standard with factory suspension options that could be matched to the buyer? "New R NIneT, Sir? Certainly...now if you'll just hop the scales, we'll have that ready for you next week!")

So, If you only do one thing to your bike, upgrade the suspension.
Only get suspension advice from a real suspension ninja. Anything else is just unvalidated opinion (Mine included!)
If you live in Australia, Terry Hayes is the man
My bike was built in 2016...but as of last week it's brand new.

Cheers
 

· Premium Member
1998 R1100GS,2017 R 9 Racer, 2004 Moto Guzzi V11, 2004 Triumph Thruxto
Joined
·
312 Posts
The Matris MB329.3KD rear shock finally arrived last week (13 weeks to Oz) Just adding my observations to the very comprehensive suspension forum.

- The build quality is spectacular. Compared to the usual suspects, Matris tends to fly under the radar when it comes to suspension manufacturers...what a mistake!
I've had Wilbers and Ohlins gear in other bikes. Wilbers got my money once, but they wont get any more. My mate's father was the licensed distributor for several well-known brands
of motorcycle equipment (that will remain nameless). He toured the Ohlins factory a few years ago during an industry junket in Europe. I remember him saying there is an
Ohlins factory,,,and then there is an Ohlins factory. There's a big difference between the products available to us mortals and the gear supplied to racing teams (Although, you wouldn't
think so considering the way Ohlins price their gear)

- The dark art of suspension will remain a mystery to all but a select few. Always has, always will...so us mortals MUST consult the masters

- Terry Hayes of 'Shock Treatment' (on the outskirts of Sydney) is a true master. Professional advice, real-world experience and one of the nicest workshops I've ever seen. You're
welcome to watch the work being done on your bike and the mechanics are friendly and professional...no apprentices! I had the rear shock fitted and the front forks overhauled with
new springs, valves, seals etc. in less than 4 hours

- The suspension upgrade to my 2016 Roadster is the single most transformative experience I've had in almost 35 years of bike riding. I know opinions on this topic vary widely...But I
I would happily swap the Rapid Bike unit, hyperpro steering damper, Kineo wheels, and every piece of carbon fiber and bling for this modification. (Fortunately, I don't have to). The OEM stuff did the job...I learnt to trust that the bike would hold its line, but the stock suspension is really only marginally better than sticks with some chewing gum on each end

- Now, the rear tire stays on the ground, the bike doesn't dive or lurch when shutting off the throttle and the progressive damping feels like riding on a cloud around the city and on rails when you wick things up.

Most of us would expect that manufacturers select their bike parts after doing extensive testing and data analysis to find the ideal 'standard' for their intended market. In reality, its a result of choosing the middle priced option from the tender process. And what is the 'standard' market anyway...6' 1" and 100 kgs or 5' 9" and 80 kgs? So the whole idea of 'standard' is flawed. (Wouldn't it be brilliant if all new bikes came standard with factory suspension options that could be matched to the buyer? "New R NIneT, Sir? Certainly...now if you'll just hop the scales, we'll have that ready for you next week!")

So, If you only do one thing to your bike, upgrade the suspension.
Only get suspension advice from a real suspension ninja. Anything else is just unvalidated opinion (Mine included!)
If you live in Australia, Terry Hayes is the man
My bike was built in 2016...but as of last week it's brand new.

Cheers
Totally agree. No matter how old or how new a motorbike is if you have proper suspension bits installed (to your weight and riding needs) you will fall in love with your bike all over again. That bumpy corner that you could never find a clean line through will now seem non-existent. It's the first place I apply the spanners to. :geek:(y)
 

· Registered
2019 Scrambler Option 719, 2013 K1600GTL,
Joined
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456 Posts
The only place I know of in the United States is Beemershop. This might be a good jumping point to name true suspension professionals in our regions. There's no doubt a good set of springs and dampeners makes an uncanny difference in the performance of our motorcycles, but so many of us remain ignorant to that fact or don't know who to turn to.
 

· Premium Member
1998 R1100GS,2017 R 9 Racer, 2004 Moto Guzzi V11, 2004 Triumph Thruxto
Joined
·
312 Posts
The only place I know of in the United States is Beemershop. This might be a good jumping point to name true suspension professionals in our regions. There's no doubt a good set of springs and dampeners makes an uncanny difference in the performance of our motorcycles, but so many of us remain ignorant to that fact or don't know who to turn to.
There are some pretty good firms here in the States. To avoid offending the folks who help us out with the our race bikes my suggestion is to ask some of your local racers. Even if they do all their own set-up they'll know who to go to for parts and new shocks and the like.
Do remember to not over do things as to range of adjustments (each one raises the cost) unless you can use them. This said a remote pre-load adjuster is a real plus if you travel.
 

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Joined
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545 Posts
Terry Hay Shock Treatment, I have been giving him suspension items to mod and re-service for over 20 years, have dealt with a couple of others but his knowledge, work and attitude win me over. I'm glad you mentioned his workshop, it is surgically clean, he is very particular in this regard. I tend to keep bikes for a long time, currently three boxers all on modded suspension, but the R9T UGS was the worst factory suspended bike I have ever owned, the BMW's from the 70's had better suspension. I've copped some flack for my criticism of the factory suspension on the R9T, some have defended it but I'd say they don't know what real suspension is. Surprised at your comment on Wilbers, I have a Wilbers in the rear of my R9T and both ends of my 1200Adv, I reckon it's the same as the Ohlins I have at both ends of my 1150 Adv. I shake my head when I see an R9T that has had a large amount of money spent on a louder exhaust, overpriced bling with catchy brand names etc and the factory suspension is still in the bike! Any R9T owner in the Sydney area that doesn't believe the difference before/after with suspension is welcome to a ride on my bike. Another good suspension bloke in the Sydney region is SOS , i.e. Sean O'Sullivan Suspension, he did a fantastic job on my R1100RS back in 1997, and did the forks on my R9T in recent times.:cool:
 

· Premium Member
1998 R1100GS,2017 R 9 Racer, 2004 Moto Guzzi V11, 2004 Triumph Thruxto
Joined
·
312 Posts
Terry Hay Shock Treatment, I have been giving him suspension items to mod and re-service for over 20 years, have dealt with a couple of others but his knowledge, work and attitude win me over. I'm glad you mentioned his workshop, it is surgically clean, he is very particular in this regard. I tend to keep bikes for a long time, currently three boxers all on modded suspension, but the R9T UGS was the worst factory suspended bike I have ever owned, the BMW's from the 70's had better suspension. I've copped some flack for my criticism of the factory suspension on the R9T, some have defended it but I'd say they don't know what real suspension is. Surprised at your comment on Wilbers, I have a Wilbers in the rear of my R9T and both ends of my 1200Adv, I reckon it's the same as the Ohlins I have at both ends of my 1150 Adv. I shake my head when I see an R9T that has had a large amount of money spent on a louder exhaust, overpriced bling with catchy brand names etc and the factory suspension is still in the bike! Any R9T owner in the Sydney area that doesn't believe the difference before/after with suspension is welcome to a ride on my bike. Another good suspension bloke in the Sydney region is SOS , i.e. Sean O'Sullivan Suspension, he did a fantastic job on my R1100RS back in 1997, and did the forks on my R9T in recent times.:cool:
Again, totally agree. The last place I spend money on is Horsepower. Even with our racers it's suspension, weight, aerodynamics and lastly HP. A engineering professor (who raced by the way) once told us that if you have a choice between 10% less drag or 10% more HP you'll always go faster with 10% less drag and the thing will live far longer. The suspension lets you take advantage of what the machine has to offer.
 

· Registered
2019 Scrambler Option 719, 2013 K1600GTL,
Joined
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456 Posts
So true. I never raced but did push a couple bikes to the edges of my abilities. I was always faster with well-sprung and dampened machines. Performance mods tended to open a can of worms that required even more mods to strengthen things that couldn't handle the added stresses.
 

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BMW R NIne T 2016
Joined
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11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Again, totally agree. The last place I spend money on is Horsepower. Even with our racers it's suspension, weight, aerodynamics and lastly HP. A engineering professor (who raced by the way) once told us that if you have a choice between 10% less drag or 10% more HP you'll always go faster with 10% less drag and the thing will live far longer. The suspension lets you take advantage of what the machine has to offer.
Words of wisdom from the professor!
 

· Registered
Joined
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81 Posts
The Matris MB329.3KD rear shock finally arrived last week (13 weeks to Oz) Just adding my observations to the very comprehensive suspension forum.

- The build quality is spectacular. Compared to the usual suspects, Matris tends to fly under the radar when it comes to suspension manufacturers...what a mistake!
I've had Wilbers and Ohlins gear in other bikes. Wilbers got my money once, but they wont get any more. My mate's father was the licensed distributor for several well-known brands
of motorcycle equipment (that will remain nameless). He toured the Ohlins factory a few years ago during an industry junket in Europe. I remember him saying there is an
Ohlins factory,,,and then there is an Ohlins factory. There's a big difference between the products available to us mortals and the gear supplied to racing teams (Although, you wouldn't
think so considering the way Ohlins price their gear)

- The dark art of suspension will remain a mystery to all but a select few. Always has, always will...so us mortals MUST consult the masters

- Terry Hayes of 'Shock Treatment' (on the outskirts of Sydney) is a true master. Professional advice, real-world experience and one of the nicest workshops I've ever seen. You're
welcome to watch the work being done on your bike and the mechanics are friendly and professional...no apprentices! I had the rear shock fitted and the front forks overhauled with
new springs, valves, seals etc. in less than 4 hours

- The suspension upgrade to my 2016 Roadster is the single most transformative experience I've had in almost 35 years of bike riding. I know opinions on this topic vary widely...But I
I would happily swap the Rapid Bike unit, hyperpro steering damper, Kineo wheels, and every piece of carbon fiber and bling for this modification. (Fortunately, I don't have to). The OEM stuff did the job...I learnt to trust that the bike would hold its line, but the stock suspension is really only marginally better than sticks with some chewing gum on each end

- Now, the rear tire stays on the ground, the bike doesn't dive or lurch when shutting off the throttle and the progressive damping feels like riding on a cloud around the city and on rails when you wick things up.

Most of us would expect that manufacturers select their bike parts after doing extensive testing and data analysis to find the ideal 'standard' for their intended market. In reality, its a result of choosing the middle priced option from the tender process. And what is the 'standard' market anyway...6' 1" and 100 kgs or 5' 9" and 80 kgs? So the whole idea of 'standard' is flawed. (Wouldn't it be brilliant if all new bikes came standard with factory suspension options that could be matched to the buyer? "New R NIneT, Sir? Certainly...now if you'll just hop the scales, we'll have that ready for you next week!")

So, If you only do one thing to your bike, upgrade the suspension.
Only get suspension advice from a real suspension ninja. Anything else is just unvalidated opinion (Mine included!)
If you live in Australia, Terry Hayes is the man
My bike was built in 2016...but as of last week it's brand new.

Cheers
I have a Matris fork upgrade kit in my garage ready for fitting over the winter months and am hoping for good results!
 

· Premium Member
BMW R nineT Pure
Joined
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2,349 Posts
Nice write-up, and I'm glad the new shock worked out so well for you! 👍

I think unless you're buying a high end sportbike like a Fireblade, Panigale, etc., manufacturers generally cheap out on suspension components. Many buyers are none the wiser, and also many don't ride their machines hard enough (or just enough in the first place) for them to worry about needing better suspensions. A new bike's suspension isn't in the forefront of most buyers' minds; manufacturers know this and take advantage of it. There have been bikes I just wouldn't consider because of how bad the stock suspension was. But having modified the suspensions on both of my long-term bikes, and knowing it doesn't have to break the bank, I don't think a bad factory suspension will be as limiting a factor for me in the future.

I think if we looked at it from a different angle, and playing devil's advocate for a moment, would you be willing to pay an additional 10% for a new bike with a good suspension? Or an additional 20% for a great suspension? Some of us would say yes, but I think many would say no. I knew I'd be swapping out my Pure's fork springs and rear shock due to my high weight, but at least I would then have a choice of what bits to buy instead of having paid more for a bike with better suspension components I was going to have to modify or replace anyway. But that's just my own personal example.
 

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Joined
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Agreed (y) 110% ... The very first thing I do with a new moto is:
1) set up the riding position correctly for my size and intended use,
2) put the best tires on it,
3) set up the the suspension (which has always required upgrading the rear shock/s and front springs [and sometimes slider-tubes depending on the bike's set up].

I see very few bikes come with decent suspension as stock ... and good suspension that is properly tuned is an absolute must for rider [and pillion] comfort, handling performance, and safety. Unfortunately it adds $$ to the TCO of your bike. The RnineT stock suspension is total rubbish, and completely detracts from the riding experience of this moto ... but once you fix this, you have one of the best bikes [in my humble opinion] out there.
 

· Registered
Joined
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9 Posts
The Matris MB329.3KD rear shock finally arrived last week (13 weeks to Oz) Just adding my observations to the very comprehensive suspension forum.

- The build quality is spectacular. Compared to the usual suspects, Matris tends to fly under the radar when it comes to suspension manufacturers...what a mistake!
I've had Wilbers and Ohlins gear in other bikes. Wilbers got my money once, but they wont get any more. My mate's father was the licensed distributor for several well-known brands
of motorcycle equipment (that will remain nameless). He toured the Ohlins factory a few years ago during an industry junket in Europe. I remember him saying there is an
Ohlins factory,,,and then there is an Ohlins factory. There's a big difference between the products available to us mortals and the gear supplied to racing teams (Although, you wouldn't
think so considering the way Ohlins price their gear)

- The dark art of suspension will remain a mystery to all but a select few. Always has, always will...so us mortals MUST consult the masters

- Terry Hayes of 'Shock Treatment' (on the outskirts of Sydney) is a true master. Professional advice, real-world experience and one of the nicest workshops I've ever seen. You're
welcome to watch the work being done on your bike and the mechanics are friendly and professional...no apprentices! I had the rear shock fitted and the front forks overhauled with
new springs, valves, seals etc. in less than 4 hours

- The suspension upgrade to my 2016 Roadster is the single most transformative experience I've had in almost 35 years of bike riding. I know opinions on this topic vary widely...But I
I would happily swap the Rapid Bike unit, hyperpro steering damper, Kineo wheels, and every piece of carbon fiber and bling for this modification. (Fortunately, I don't have to). The OEM stuff did the job...I learnt to trust that the bike would hold its line, but the stock suspension is really only marginally better than sticks with some chewing gum on each end

- Now, the rear tire stays on the ground, the bike doesn't dive or lurch when shutting off the throttle and the progressive damping feels like riding on a cloud around the city and on rails when you wick things up.

Most of us would expect that manufacturers select their bike parts after doing extensive testing and data analysis to find the ideal 'standard' for their intended market. In reality, its a result of choosing the middle priced option from the tender process. And what is the 'standard' market anyway...6' 1" and 100 kgs or 5' 9" and 80 kgs? So the whole idea of 'standard' is flawed. (Wouldn't it be brilliant if all new bikes came standard with factory suspension options that could be matched to the buyer? "New R NIneT, Sir? Certainly...now if you'll just hop the scales, we'll have that ready for you next week!")

So, If you only do one thing to your bike, upgrade the suspension.
Only get suspension advice from a real suspension ninja. Anything else is just unvalidated opinion (Mine included!)
If you live in Australia, Terry Hayes is the man
My bike was built in 2016...but as of last week it's brand new.

Cheers
Absolutely agree (y)on the need for a suspension upgrade on the RnineT - I'd be interested to know in how much the shock kit cost, and what was the cost of having it fitted by Terry and his crew?
 

· Premium Member
BMW R nineT Pure
Joined
·
2,349 Posts
Agreed (y) 110% ... The very first thing I do with a new moto is:
1) set up the riding position correctly for my size and intended use,
2) put the best tires on it,
3) set up the the suspension (which has always required upgrading the rear shock/s and front springs [and sometimes slider-tubes depending on the bike's set up].

I see very few bikes come with decent suspension as stock ... and good suspension that is properly tuned is an absolute must for rider [and pillion] comfort, handling performance, and safety. Unfortunately it adds $$ to the TCO of your bike. The RnineT stock suspension is total rubbish, and completely detracts from the riding experience of this moto ... but once you fix this, you have one of the best bikes [in my humble opinion] out there.
Agree.

Short story...I have short legs for my height. Anytime I buy a new pair of pants, no matter how short I can get them from the store, I have to have them hemmed. It's a pain, so I usually put off buying new clothes until I really need them. So when I do buy pants -- like last week on Black Friday when I bought 4 pairs a new dress pants for work, on sale for $40 each -- in my head I'm adding about $10 per pair to the price, because that's what it's going to cost me to get each pair altered to actually fit me.

It's the same for just about any new or used motorcycle I look at. I'm fat (but working on it!), so any bike I buy is going to need the suspension modded for my weight. So when I'm looking at another bike, same as with the pants, in my head I'm adding probably $1,000 to the price for the inevitable suspension mods the bike will need. And that's on the cheap end, which is all I need, but I know others are thinking probably double that amount. It sometimes makes the thought of buying another bike a little less attractive to me. And the same reason I don't buy new pants very often. ;)
 
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