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Just an update...


Lemon laws in my state require there to be at least 3 failures/unsuccessful repairs (of the same item) or the vehicle be out of use for 30 days (days need not be consecutive) before arbitration or any buy-back or recompense.

So, for examples.....

I'm on my 3rd tail light now so if that fails too before the warranty period expires Lemon laws come into play.

If any issues are not resolved and leave the bike out of service for more than 30 days total Lemon laws come into play.

Obviously the law doesn't cover items caused by misuse or neglect. It does cover safety items which I consider the tail light failures, final drive and clutch line to be covered under. Based on the behavior to date I fully expect this tail light to fail within the next 3000-6000 miles which should be before warranty time period and mileage maximums are reached.

I'm not a lawyer or an internet research expert, but from my cursory look at South Carolina Lemon laws, motorcycles are excluded - which would mean you're subject to filing a complaint under The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. I suspect the dealership and BMWNA are acting within the legal guidelines of the warranty and aren't going to put themselves at risk of legal action that uses failure to comply with terms of the warranty as a basis.


I've had warranty issues with BMW before and the was fortunate to have a dealer who was in my corner. I think that 9 out of 10 times, this is what gets it done, since in most cases it comes down to customer retention for them and brand loyalty for BMWNA. It's a sh!tty situation for you, but I think the best thing you can do at this point is exercise some patience, give your dealer and BMWNA the opportunity to resolve the issues (per the terms of the warranty) and take every opportunity to express to them that you would be a long time BMW customer and this situation is putting that in jeopardy. If they continually get the impression you're already a lost customer, they'll just tow the line and do the bare minimum per their legal requirements under the warranty.


Sorry for your continued troubles, I hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I'm guessing that you're referring to the info listed here:

LEMON LAW

Specifically:

Q. Does the lemon law cover anything other than new motor vehicles?
A. No. It only covers passenger motor vehicles (cars, vans, small trucks).

But if you refer to the SC code of Laws,

Title 56 - Motor Vehicles

CHAPTER 3

Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing

ARTICLE 1

Short Title; Definitions

(1) "Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which a person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.
(2) "Motor vehicle" means every vehicle which is self- propelled, except mopeds, and every vehicle which is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails.


I imagine the intent in the lemon law page was to exclude anything other than Motor Vehicles.... things like coffee makers, refrigerators, washers and dryers..... stuff like that.

Like you though, I'm no lawyer but if I were on a jury, I'd lean toward my interpretation as that definition seems to set a precedent unless instructed otherwise.

I'm not throwing this in their face as my intent, I want it fixed, and in a timely manner and they need to act as if it's important to them. That would go a long way to towards keeping a customer. Right now I don't feel like they want to.

 

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I'm not throwing this in their face as my intent, I want it fixed, and in a timely manner and they need to act as if it's important to them. That would go a long way towards keeping a customer. Right now I don't feel like they want to.
They might not be able to afford you as a customer. I'm not being snide. I'm with you on this. Your bike needs to be fixed but the dealership might not be willing to go out on a limb to do it.

I know someone who owns a BMW motorcycle dealership. I've talked to him about his business in general and about warranties in particular. I learned that if BMW doesn't stand behind a particular repair than he has to eat the costs of any repairs that are made. That includes labor and parts. Your dealership might not be willing to do that.

Because of that I think I would lean on BMWNA. Make a lot of noise. Be nice but be firm. Tell the owner of the dealership that you are taking your problem to BMWNA. (Don't screw around with the service manager.) Maybe that will give the owner of the dealership some incentive to work with you.

Good luck!
 

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My advice would be to try and get ahold of the BMW regional service rep.This is the guy who approves warranty repairs for all the dealers. If the bike is a lemon then he can give the dealer the authority ($) to properlynfix your bike. If, god forbid, the dealer has done something nefarious (like selling a demo bike for new...yikes)then he'll climb on the dealer's ass and you'll still get everything fixed. If he ignores you, then you'll have much more ammo in your gun when you contact bmwna.


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Over here in Euroland, when you take your BM in for something or other they send you an e-mail link to a survey. When I was treated shoddily by my dealer I used the survey to vent my displeasure and shortly after I received a telephone call from BMW UK (who are the main people for UK/Ireland) and they listened to my complaints with sympathy. A very short time later the dealer was on the telephone to me and sorted out the problem to my satisfaction.

In a survey I read recently of nine motorbike manufactures, BMW came ninth for reliability. They have never been good. People assume they are reliable but they aren't. Their quality control is obviously lacking and some of their policies are poor such as anti-corrosion and items covered under the warranty. My original BMW battery failed and caused weird problems to my bike. They charged me for a new battery and told me the new BMW battery (twice the cost of the same battery from the battery manufacturer) had a two year warranty!

Europeans only get a two year warranty, sadly.

My one-year old R9T is corroding even faster than my first one! It is now in a similar state to my 1993 Honda VFR750F (which I keep outside too).

NICK
 

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In a survey I read recently of nine motorbike manufactures, BMW came ninth for reliability. They have never been good. People assume they are reliable but they aren't.
OR the survey shows that BMW owners complain the most...
 

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I did that with my 2014 R9T. They agreed to change all the frame but whilst they were doing that they lent me a 2016 R9T which I decided to keep - my current bike. I will do the same again.

NICK

You, my friend, need to take detailed pictures and file an official complaint with BMW.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Another update.

Nothing positive.

Dropped the bike off on April 1st (Saturday). Now 14 days into my ordeal. Dealer said next opening was the coming Wednesday, the 5th.

It's now the 18th and I haven't heard a single word via email or phone. So far I've been without the use of my 9t for 31 days.

Decided to email BMW Customer Service. To their credit they called back quickly but the net result of the conversation was they would call the Service Manager for me. Well shucks man, I coulda done that. :wavetowel2:

Beyond that they didn't seem to be too interested in making things right.

I pressed them on the failing tail light issue and how it keeps coming back and if they planned to fix it permanently or just keep handing me the same tail lights until the warranty expires and then I'm on my own. They were pretty non-committal regarding that issue. Just that they would address it when it happened. Based on behavior to date, I'm not hopeful.

At first I was thinking it was just the dealer I picked was wrong but now I'm starting to think it might be an issue from the dealer all the way up into BMW Motorrad.

I'll wait until tomorrow to hear back from the dealer, then I'm starting my walk up the ladder in BMW. Time to get serious. Perhaps a bit indignant and angry too. :mad2:

Kinda started soft shopping replacements for the 9t. Thoughts on the new CB1100RS (hopeful it comes to the US) or an FZ-10? A riding buddy has his heart set on a Thruxton 1200R and I feel I'll likely be in the market before him so I don't want to step on toes. I really like the looks of the Ducati Desert Sled but.... it's a Ducati. I've heard plenty of horror stories about them and the Scrambler with the same engine I test rode was soft on power compared to the 9t. I do love the exhaust note of the Ducati twins though.
 

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Another update.

Thoughts on the new CB1100RS .


I recently test rode the new CB1100RS (which looks magnificent to my eyes and is well-finished), and found it to be very pleasant. Just that really - it is easy and nice to ride with a slight rasp to the exhaust note now, which is a big improvement over the previous incarnation. With a pillion it is really smooth and ideal (it is heavy, although its weight wasn't a problem). It was brand new and so not run in and therefore I was not pushing it however, it feels a little under powered compared to the nineT, that might be an issue as a substitute. I would love one as a second bike to use for taking pillions.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I recently test rode the new CB1100RS (which looks magnificent to my eyes and is well-finished), and found it to be very pleasant. Just that really - it is easy and nice to ride with a slight rasp to the exhaust note now, which is a big improvement over the previous incarnation. With a pillion it is really smooth and ideal (it is heavy, although its weight wasn't a problem). It was brand new and so not run in and therefore I was not pushing it however, it feels a little under powered compared to the nineT, that might be an issue as a substitute. I would love one as a second bike to use for taking pillions.
I tested a first generation CB1100 (5 speed) and while it certainly was a fine machine I found it a bit soul-less. Typical excellent Honda build quality but very clinical. I'm hoping the changes on the EX and RS iterations liven it up a bit, even if it's a bit slower than a 9t. I think I could live with that. Honda certainly did a much better job hearkening back to previous generations compared to BMW. I think Honda and Triumph both schooled BMW in that regard.

I really would like to keep a retro machine in the stable but I'm not above getting more for my money, thus the FZ-10 possibility. When shopping the R9T I was also considering the R1200RLC since for the same money (at the time) as an R9t you get a pretty well optioned R1200R.

Funny anecdote:

When I took the CB1100 for a spin I didn't start it until I was seated, helmet on and had adjusted the mirrors. After hitting the start button I didn't hear or feel the engine running so I went to start it again without consulting the gauges. Lets just say I was a bit embarrassed . That engine is so well balanced and super torquey!
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Have you looked at the new Bonneville T120? https://youtu.be/vI9NxDKAWDQ

NICK
I hadn't really. I was at the Triumph dealer with my riding buddy last weekend and was drooling over the Street Cup and Street Scrambler but they've got the smaller engine, weaker brakes..... Fixing that would mean a step up to a Thruxton (so I thought) but I like the Cup proportions and styling better.

The T120 looks to bridge the gap and with a few modest changes... bars, seat, etc I could be in Cup style territory with the 1200 performance. Good call.

There was a T120 that had just sold and was being picked up and it sounded awesome. Even with the stock peashooters.

I just spoke to the dealership, looks like my call to BMW CS helped, I guess..... Clutch line leak traced to a loose banjo bolt at the slave cylinder. Kinda a bit of Deja Vu with the loose cam chain tensioner bolt on the left-hand bank at around 4600 miles. What else do I need to worry about being loose now.....

The Exhaust manifold crack is indeed approved as a warranty item and they will replace it but I have to wait around 2-3 more weeks to have one shipped in from Germany.

The soft spots in the paint on the fuel tank were denied by BMW because they won't warranty paint issues after 12 months. I had to promptly advise them I asked for help with the first spot at my 6000 mile service which happened at under a year from purchase. They are looking back into the service history to see if that can be used as a case for replacement. If they approve that we're looking at another 2-3 weeks.

So, hopefully I'll have my R9t back after about two months. :eek:mg::rolleyes2:
 

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Glad to hear there is at least some movement in your case. Please keep us posted, and perhaps when all is said and done, would you mind adding a brief bulleted summary which steps you took resulted in which actions by BMW?

Good luck, and hope you get it all resolved!
 

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I love the looks of the Honda.

Ducati makes exciting bikes (I've owned five over the years.) but I will never buy another one. I had too much trouble with my Paul Smart. I gave up on Ducati.

[URL=http://s172.photobucket.com/user/gfspencer/media/IMG_1681.jpg.html][/URL]

I have a Triumph Scrambler. It's a lot of fun. I've had it for three years. No major problems.

You have been really patient. I would have blown my top by now. :blush:
 

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My crappy BMW dealer at least gave me another BM to ride when mine was with them.

NICK

... So, hopefully I'll have my R9t back after about two months. :eek:mg::rolleyes2:
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Post-Weekend update!

On Thursday (April 20) I called and tried to reach the dealership General Manager to discuss my issues. First person advised he was in a meeting, call back in about an hour, hour and a half. Called back an hour and 30 later, was told he was gone for the day. Ended up leaving a message for them to call me back.

Friday, Nothing from them. Call another dealership to see if the narrative is consistent in regards to parts availability. Exhaust manifolds/header: 0 in USA, 20 in Germany, transit time is ~2 weeks. Fuel Tank: 0 in USA, 0 in Germany, no possible ETA. Consistent. Parts guy was super nice, instead of just transferring me to someone else to find out the cost of the 12,000 mile service he took the time to find out for me, might consider switching to this dealership later on. We'll see how things go. Google reviews for them are better than my current.

Saturday, Service Manager calls. Summary:

9t still at the dealership. Still waiting on the exhaust to ship in from Germany.

He could find no instance of my complaints about the paint issues at or around my 6000 mile service. He is working with BMW to sort out what can be done. To his credit, I think he genuinely cares and is being presented with a horrible situation as the prior manager seems to have done f*** all while employed there. My prior small complaints (missing screws in the rear fender, mangled hump grommet, etc.) were never addressed and now I know why. Level of care during that time <= 0.

Went by the local Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki dealership to order some supplies and drool over the new models. The FZ-10 I was lusting after got transferred to another dealership. There goes that option. They did have a few new cool items. A Honda CR250F, looked like a mini Africa Twin. Pretty neat. It was pre-sold before it hit the dealership. They're still sitting on a XSR-900 and a Yamaha SC 950 Scrambler. The XSR has the brushed tank covers and is pretty cool. Not sold on the tail lights and headlights Yamaha has used on these. Looks a bit...... square. Very sharp edges.

BMW Customer Service sent me "How'd we do" email. I guess I'll have to let them know. I've been mulling over my response and intend to send it today. :S-A-Smack:
 
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