Which ECU remap is the best? (pre 2017 bikes)
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There are a number of threads about flashes in this section. There are only 3 pages of threads. Scroll thru and do some reading.
Ok after reading all the pages (more like 20) here is what I understood and correct me if I am wrong:
- 2 types of ECU (2014-2016) and (2017 - present)
- 2 types of mods (re-flashing ECU or Piggybacks)
- Re-flashing ECU is superior to Piggybacks because you can adjust Timing table, throttle table, torque limiter table and remove the flat spot.
-Piggybacks are just changing the AFR ratio's by telling the injector to how much more fuel they need to spray (by doing so the engine becomes more balanced and not lean as they come out from factory)
-Piggybacks are the cheapest way to improve your engine smoothness (they will not improve HP/Torque by so much)
-ECU re-flash is the best way to improve your engine smoothness + increase HP/Torque + make it more suitable for track.
-If you opt for ECU re-flash, you need to be careful when you send your bike to dealership so they will not over-ride the custom mapping.
-If you opt for ECU re-flash you will have two options : custom tuning that needs a dyno run or OTS (off the shelf map which was already mapped based on popular mods such as catless header and so on.
-Difference between OTS and custom tuning is debatable. (In my opinion it is like debating an Audiophile that spending 900$ on a cable is worth it). Don't get me wrong, there is a measurable difference but the question is can you feel it?
- If you opt for piggybacks you have two option: already made maps or with an AUTO MAPPER
- Auto mapper will tweak the AFR (air fuel ratio) in real time (how fast can it do it is debatable) but at least if you upgrade mods on your bike (change headers, air filter, etc..) the auto mapper will adjust the AFR. But in a ECU re-flash method, you will need to re-flash again.
Did I miss something?
Was I wrong in one of the topics?
Now here is my question:
I have a 2016 model.
I don't care about performance gain.
I care about engine smoothness.
I want the bike to be more enjoyable when riding it.
I ride in the city 70% and countryside 30%.
If the engine is smoother I would ride more often in the countryside.
Which method would you suggest?
Gracias mucho!
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First it seems you missed this thread is about the 2017's and you have a 2016 but I'll let the mods figure this out. You have good points.
I have a 2015 Same BMSK ECU as your 2016. We're EURO3.
"I don't care about performance gain.
I care about engine smoothness.
I want the bike to be more enjoyable when riding it.
I ride in the city 70% and countryside 30%.
If the engine is smoother I would ride more often in the countryside."
This all really goes together nicely.
What I DID (and would do again) is went with BrenTunings' hanheld. If I had a 2017-up with the newer ECU I'd send them my ECU to flash.
Yeah, I'm partial but it's because it works that well. It gives you a nicer running bike that happens to make more power. It doesn't just make more peak power it cleans up how it runs and makes it feel like a well tuned pre-emissions standards motor. It just runs nice.You ride and smile.
I don't know if BMW's system will find it if hooked up.Bren says it will be found and over written on the 2017-up ECU if it's hooked up. The EURO4 2017-up ECU seems to have a lot more checks built in to try and keep tuners from tuning.... My bike has never been hooked up to "the system" but with the hand held can be.
"Piggybacks" will give you a nicer running bike within limits. My other bike has a PCIII along with its' 15 yr old old "smart as a rock" ECU. The PCIIIs' limitations are frustrating form a tuning aspect.
There's a lot more tuners that can get into the ECU can do vs just adding an alpha N fueling table.
There is no true open loop real time "autotune". The systems always run off maps/tables. Autotune basically sees if the mapping was giving the desired result by comparing what it "saw" to a "desired result" table and updates the mapping or more usually saves the data and "asks" if you want to make changes.
Our Bosch ECU's are very smart. A good flash works with it and leaves it smart vs other options that actually make it "dumb".
Want to really make your bike run nice out in the country? I'd suggest the BrenTuning flash and a 2.62 final drive from an R2100RT. Great running combination that doesn't have you always looking for another gear... It's a transformation.
That's my opinion. I have rode one other R9T (it was a 2014-16 "original") with a PCV with autotune. I also have Brens' flashes set for different octane fuels and know that makes a difference. In early 2015 I paid ~ $200 more for my handheld than the current pricing.
Should be enough thread drift to keep the mods busy...:redface:
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Interesting stuff so far, but as @JohnT said the original thread this discussion was posted in was for 2017+ bikes.
You guys love keeping us Mods on our toes!
I'd be leaning towards Bren Tuning and have actually been in contact with them. Just dipping my toe in the water for now, so-to-speak. I have to say their customer service seems top-notch, I got a a very pleasant and professional reply to my email within a day. I've done some research and can't say I've heard a bad word said against them...
So anyway @Manyakus, as you will have seen I've created a new thread for this discussion where you and @JohnT can play to your hearts content... Enjoy!
You guys love keeping us Mods on our toes!
I'd be leaning towards Bren Tuning and have actually been in contact with them. Just dipping my toe in the water for now, so-to-speak. I have to say their customer service seems top-notch, I got a a very pleasant and professional reply to my email within a day. I've done some research and can't say I've heard a bad word said against them...
So anyway @Manyakus, as you will have seen I've created a new thread for this discussion where you and @JohnT can play to your hearts content... Enjoy!
@JohnT Thank you for all the information.
I guess it all comes down to:
-How much money you want to spend
-How much perfect you want to be in your tuning.
Knowing my needs, I would need a PC5
Knowing my OCD, I would need BrenTuning with Handheld
I am attaching a summary of all the tunes available that I felt were the best.
This will save some researching time for people.
I guess it all comes down to:
-How much money you want to spend
-How much perfect you want to be in your tuning.
Knowing my needs, I would need a PC5
Knowing my OCD, I would need BrenTuning with Handheld
I am attaching a summary of all the tunes available that I felt were the best.
This will save some researching time for people.
I guess I am in the same boat as you
With Brens' current pricing a flash with handheld isn't a lot more than a PCV and auto tune. You also don't have to wire it and find a place for the modules.
I rode an R9T with PCV and auto tune. It ran nice but not near as well as my flashed bike. Its' owner agreed. We traded bikes and rode a bit to get a comparison.
I wonder if they do group buys and if we have enough people who would be interested?
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Why not start a thread on this?
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I’ve sent BrenTuning an email regarding this topic, I’ll respond with specifics once he replies. More to follow and look for another thread start as BD stated.
I'm not sure about that...
I sent him an email asking him about the 4x maps that comes with the handheld....wanted to know if I can use one map for now (for stock bike) and use the others one when I would know which mods I want (maybe next year or the year after) knowing that I would pay the full price now but leaving the 3x remaining maps for later (like a balance in the bank)...he replied no he can't, all the maps must be chosen now and if I don't know which mods I want in the future I must anticipate now (I must guess now what I want to mod my bike in the future).
So if he is not willing to accommodate for the maps, why would he accommodate for the bulk price purchase?
Being at this stage, I am a little bit turned off and seriously thinking going PC5 with an Auto-Tuner.
Unless if he cuts the price and offer 1x map only with a Handheld then in the future if I mod my bike I just buy individual maps; However I don't think he has that option.
He also confirmed that the Handheld will not reset service light.
I don't remember but which module ECU tuner with handheld does that?
What mods might you make that would affect the flash you're using? I can only think of 3. Stock exhaust, catless header, individual air filters. Can't accommodate those with 4 maps? A 93 octane flash will run on 91 (R+M)/2. Stock exhaust, catless header. I obsessed over the 4 maps when I bought mine. I've actually used one except to try the lower octane version I din't really need. I already had Remus catless hdr and Yoshimura can when I got the handheld. Same flash runs fine with or without the db killer in the can. I normally have the db killer in. Doesn't matter if you have a Remus or Akra etc catless hdr. Just if it's catless. It's easy to overthink this and rationalize not spending money.
PCV is $399, 2 channel Auto Tune is $479. MSRP's, you can get them for a bit less.
None of the handhelds are a replacement for having a GS-911 for diagnostics and resets etc. I have a GS-911 too.
Are you still running the stock exhaust?
That's very interesting and I am glad you asked to clearify. I thought once you purchased the hand held they can could make changes via email for no extra cost.
If I ended up getting my air box removed would I have to pay for the ecu flash all over again if I did not pre choose it from the beginning?
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Even though I don't know that much about engine tuning (well almost nothing to be honest) as a regular guy I tend to agree with what JT has said. If I was getting a Bren handheld, I'd go for stock exhaust system map, catless exhaust headers plus performance silencer high octane (98RON) and probably the same maps at a lower regular octane. Don't see myself ever removing the airbox.
I think that Bren may be up for a group buy, it would make business sense, whereas banking tuning jobs for folk to ask for in the future is open to the vagaries of market forces in the longer term. Who knows what the market will be like a year or so down the line... I can see Bren's point. A group buy would be in the short term so would be easier to give a price and timeframe for.
Please let us know what Bren says @TX R nine T and open a group discount type thread if Bren are open to a group purchase discount.
I think that Bren may be up for a group buy, it would make business sense, whereas banking tuning jobs for folk to ask for in the future is open to the vagaries of market forces in the longer term. Who knows what the market will be like a year or so down the line... I can see Bren's point. A group buy would be in the short term so would be easier to give a price and timeframe for.
Please let us know what Bren says @TX R nine T and open a group discount type thread if Bren are open to a group purchase discount.
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While I’m not quite sure I understand the logic of Group buy vs Map accommodation value trade off.......BUT it’s still worth asking for the Group buy (or perhaps some Holiday pricing).
Ultimately it does sound like you’d have to figure out a general idea of your planned future Mods. However as JohnT stated there’s only so much tweaking combinations (Stock vs aftermarket headers/exhaust vs air box removal) we can do to the bike. Either way you’d be maximizing one of the preloaded Maps for your riding style/mods completed. Personally I’d emulate what R9T Legend (Nate Kern) is running/utilizing and he seems to be pretty pleased with BrenTuning results.
The piggyback systems do also sound enticing (Rapid Bike EVO) however I’ve never ridden one with such a system. I do know that I personally have had very effective positive results (Dyno and butt data) regarding ECU Tablet mapping, as I’ve been spoiled by it on my Ducati (not BrenTuning but another supplier from NoCal area). If you ever get an opportunity to try a mapped bike, I think you’d be quite impressed (throttle response, mid-power torque, smoothness, etc.)
Side note: To other folks who may not be aware, these pre-installed Maps are locked to the Tablet for one specific bike/purchaser, ie. Person 1 can’t buy tablet with 5 maps then plan to share same tablet with Person 2 to install one of the other unused Maps on their bike. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. Additionally your correct, unfortunately it will not reset codes, but as stated you need the GS tool.
@BaldyDave will do once he replies, more to follow.
Ultimately it does sound like you’d have to figure out a general idea of your planned future Mods. However as JohnT stated there’s only so much tweaking combinations (Stock vs aftermarket headers/exhaust vs air box removal) we can do to the bike. Either way you’d be maximizing one of the preloaded Maps for your riding style/mods completed. Personally I’d emulate what R9T Legend (Nate Kern) is running/utilizing and he seems to be pretty pleased with BrenTuning results.
The piggyback systems do also sound enticing (Rapid Bike EVO) however I’ve never ridden one with such a system. I do know that I personally have had very effective positive results (Dyno and butt data) regarding ECU Tablet mapping, as I’ve been spoiled by it on my Ducati (not BrenTuning but another supplier from NoCal area). If you ever get an opportunity to try a mapped bike, I think you’d be quite impressed (throttle response, mid-power torque, smoothness, etc.)
Side note: To other folks who may not be aware, these pre-installed Maps are locked to the Tablet for one specific bike/purchaser, ie. Person 1 can’t buy tablet with 5 maps then plan to share same tablet with Person 2 to install one of the other unused Maps on their bike. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. Additionally your correct, unfortunately it will not reset codes, but as stated you need the GS tool.
@BaldyDave will do once he replies, more to follow.
Ok now I understand. I thought that you needed to have maps if you have a Remus catless or an Akra catless. At the end a catless is a catless regarding the brand and it is considered one mod.
In that case I only need 2 maps :wavetowel2:
So basically these are what you need to consider when choosing a map
- Stock Exhaust
- Catless header
- Air Filter
- DB killer (you said there is no difference)
- High Octane
- Slip on (are these considered as stock exhaust?)
Did I miss something?
Yes I am still using stock exhaust!
What he replied to me is 795$ for 4 maps during the initial process (at the time of purchase) and 150$ for future add-on for each additional map.
If you have the time you may want to add Rexxer tuning as well. US$495 includes the hand-held unit so can reflash to OEM or Rexxer tune.
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