I think once the tape is on and has had the pressure on it for a bit, and cured, no centrifugal force will tear it back off even if the air pressure ceases to be on it, the adhesive is so strong. I also believe the weight of something plays a direct role in centrifugal force, and the tape weighs basically nothing.

 

yeah I think so too, but sometimes I get crazy wonderings in my mind and wonder about physics and stuff. Then I wish I'd listened more in school, or at least knew where to look for such a formula .... or better, have someone explain it to me umpteen times because it sounds so good. Then I'll take my newfound knowledge to work and apply it liberally to shut up brown-nosers & wiseguys. ha!
>

 

What is the advantage of taking the tube out - are you keeping the same tyre? I'm just wondering. Isn't having a tube as well another safeguard?

 

... the point about removing the tube for me is the ease of puncture repair on the road. Motorbike touring has become our family's favourite way of holidaying. The journey is the destination. There's often 2 - 4 or 5 bikes in our group, keeping it all tubeless helps ... ... plus, I've already had all the equipment to fix punctures in tubeless tires (from previous bikes) and wasn't keen to drag along another set of tools to fix the only tubed bike - mine! Besides, every time the BMW club guys come over, or we ride with mates - there's hardly a bike among them with tubes anymore. Means my gear can help someone out too ... (just not another 'tubed' 9T ...)

Some guys on this forum talk about the vast difference of tire-deflation behaviour when punctured. I haven't experienced that myself ... can't comment on it.

Your question, running a tube as well .... uh ... see .... it would mean having to install two valves, which one should be filled - tube or tire? It's not really practical or useful. Our tires are modern 'tubeless' tires from factory - just installed on 'tubed' rims, so they are ok to keep (it says it on the tire-side-wall)

Really - it's mostly about personal preference & comfort in my case 0

 

Fantastic job! Thank you for posting.

 

Good to hear you also had success with Outex @huntsman

Only difference is that you did some grinding of the nipples, where I didn't. Looks a better seal with them grinded down.

Outex also recommend installing a tyre with pressure ASAP after the install to get the tape to bond. I think that this is a key step! I re-installed the tyre with air within an hour.

 

(now i can go and find something worthwhile to spend my approx. $3500 savings on ... Wireless tire pressure monitoring system? ...)
:d

+3500

 

@huntsman, make sure you take pressure readings regularly and keep us posted.


I DO love the idea of a inexpensive and dependable conversion to tubeless, as I just can't justify 3500.00 + smackers for Kineo or Alpina rims.


BTW, what kind of grinders / sander did u use? And it is just a burr removing exercise?

 

Bonk .... I can be sooo, what's the word ....., hm, uh ..... anal (I guess) when it concerns riding safety re tires or brakes (sometime that goes right out the window when the twist-of-the-wrist gains dominance .... seems futile to even bother with safe equipment at times ...)

... anyway, where were we? ah yes, well what I wanted to say is that I'm considering using a wireless tire-pressure-monitor-system such as this to get a better and more exact reading easier. Would use the 4 caps for two bikes, and have peace of mind. Tyredog TPMS Wireless External Tire Pressure Monitoring System Free Shipping | eBay

re your question: I use a Makita or Metabo (or Bosch or Milwaukee, ...) 5" angle grinder. 5" is very common over here, although tertiary-educated-microsoft-pushbutton-operator-do-gooders are working hard on banishing them from the workplace in favour of 4" ones. I guess it's a hard world out there, which most office people find out when they take their hands out of the pockets to apply salve and balm to their sore elbows & bum cheeks. Then we get kneejerkreactions which help nobody but increase the feelgood factor of said tertiary educated novice..... but I digress (again ... hehe)

It requires a bit more than burr-removing. The spoke heads protrude in the shape of a mushroom by about 3mm above the top-level of the rim. The threaded part of the spoke head sits in a recess and is not touched by the grinding.
Basically I used a sanding/flapwheel to grind off 3 mm of the spoke head to make it fairly flush with the surface of the rim. This enables the adhesive tape to lie flush across the spoke recess, doesn't distort the tape and maximises the area of adhesive contact.

It's not hard by any means, just needs a bit of sensitive working towards achieving the desired result, then again, and again - by the 10th head you've become a spoke-head-grinding professional. There's not too much you can do wrong - as long as you stop BEFORE taking out chunks of aluminium from the rim. If you've ever shaved in your life - I think you have the necessary skills to get up close and personal with a grinder. Remember though, grinders don't discern between steel, aluminium or flesh. much like razors. ouch.

Pferd Polifan® Flap Disk 125mm 5" X 22 23 MM Bore 80 Grit | eBay

 

Thanks Huntsman, for the specifics.

This may be in the future for me.



Sent from my 20349 using Tapatalk

 

Just a quick one here that might sound dumb to others - can the spokes still be tightened or replaced after this?

Just something from my dirtbike and motard days...

Cheers

 

Yes, according to Outex. Inner nipples cannot.

Note that they do give you a bit of extra tape to repair if necessary.

Also, kit is VERY difficult to remove if need be.

 

Cheers, looks good to me

 

pressure readings ok

update, after 4 days of sitting idle plus 1 day spirited riding the tires lost no air other than a minute amount when checking. 36.3psi steady.
LOVE it!
:x

 

update, after 4 days of sitting idle plus 1 day spirited riding the tires lost no air other than a minute amount when checking. 36.3psi steady.
LOVE it!
:x

I think I'm on deck for that when I get some time off of xmas.
Great job and congrats.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

I like you two cheapskates.

 

... yay! 7 more days of sitting around idle - and tires showed no sign of pressure loss. Reckon I wont bother with the tire-pressure-monitor now. Usually check tires once a week, or at least before a ride if there's been a longer break between rides.

 

Huntsman have u been riding at high speed 80-100 mph /bumpy road/ long distance with outex? Please share some feedback

 

uh ... our top speed limits here are 110km/h on public roads - which I dutifully observe - of course.
0
Rough to very rough riding over quite some debris at times (broken branches from storm wind damage in rural areas), rippled roads and bends at legal speeds ... rough enough to bottom out the forks a few times - which kind of says that the rims have been subjected to decent pressures/impacts.

Higher speeds too, but of course only on 'private' roads which are generally kept in better condition and experience less traffic and damage.

150 - 300 km individual trips, about 700km all up on Outex improved rims by now.

From experience I would say that sitting idle usually encourages air leakage more than riding or riding hard .... I'm less worried about the seal-in-motion ....

 

I have Outex installed today, wasn't successful. I ask local fixer garage to install it for me. The problem happens when i get the bike back. I drove around 20 km and notice the tire loss on both wheel.The air leak from the nipple from both rims. When i took of the wheel out, i noticed the air leak came from the end of the tape area on both wheel. I think the problem happens because of the garage didn't do the good job, knowing they did install outex many times with the KTM bikes.

Now i went to another tyre shop and they proposed to use silicone glue seal the edge between the tape and the rims.

Hopefully everything went well for tomorrow. If not i will have to go back for tube tire system again.

 

As a work-around put some tyre sealant (Slime | Slime) in the tyres. Inflate and go for a 15 min ride. It should fix it for you.

 

... that kind of highlights the value of being a fussy diy novice for some projects, and giving it a go. Just before Xmas too, the 'care factor' often slumps into negative regions in many shops.

I'm not sure if silicone will do the trick for you .... there should be some Outex tape left over to put a patch over the offending poke ... I'd suggest you complain to the original installer, maybe with a letter from your solicitor - highlighting the 'hazard in traffic situations' THEY exposed you to - due to incompetent and negligent work standard (if that was the real cause), that should rattle their cage enough to redo your wheels to an acceptable standard.
Also, that way you have a record of that failure - which would help you if you ever needed proof in an unlucky situation.

If you involve another tyre shop, that will automatically mean that both will have a valid excuse to blame the other for any failings .... you will loose out definitely.

The other tyre shop's suggestion to fix with silicone ..... I don't know .... don't you think that's a bit sus?

 

I went to pick the bike up today, and again the air leak from another nipple after riding around 20km. I think they didn't sand down the nipple before install outex. So i will go back to tube mode again.

I do have some spare tape left over, they recomend me to cut the leaked part and reinstall the tape again. However, without sanding down the nipple i wouldn't dare to redo it again.

I have some question, if i put the tube back in and leave the outex as it if. Will it damage the tube when riding?
They didn't recommend me to put the the layer rubber (originally installed from the factory) back with the tube, they say its will be too heavy.

Thank you very much.
So sick! i have to removed the wheel and install it back 3 times already.. !!!

 

I didn't sand down the nipples and had no leaks. You don't need to go back to tubes, just put some Slime in.

You should remove the Outex if going back to tubes as it is heavy and adds weight.

 

"According to Pascals Law, pressure is equal everywhere within a system (e.g. compressed air in a tire). Does that pressure (3 bar to take a round number) experience gravity? e.g: is 3 bar of pressure acting on an inner surface of a rotating wheel/rim - reduced by some factor as speed and centrifugal forces increase? Will the centrifugal force at some time/speed overcome the force of the 3 bar air pressure within the tire (not calculating the adhesive bond of the sticky tape) - and force the sealing tape to come off? What speed would that require?? (I hope the answer is nowhere near 230km/h ... "


It's the mass of the air (in the tire) that you would use to do the calculation, which is not much. Your bike won't go that fast.

 

My concern are now with outex and the tube on the scratchy. I hope it doesn't scratchy and damage the tube. As for the weight is alright. I will order kineo very very soon,

 

I received my outex kit from Japan last week. Unfortunately the instructions are entirely in Japanese. Would someone be able to post on here a printable version? I would really appreciate it.

It also came with the local newspaper stuffed in the box for packing, which i'm sure would make for interesting reading if i could

I found a youtube video on the install but it's nice to have the hard copy of the manufacturer's instructions.

Thanks,
Greg

 

There is a YouTube video of instructions online

 

Hi Klondiker,
below you'll find the link to the post on R1150R forum which prompted me to go for Outex, it's quite comprehensive, with some extras added; eg. gap-closing-goop (which I didn't go for on my installation).
BMW R nineT R1250R R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T Message Board ? View topic - R12R Classic Tubeless Tire Conversion

I've thrown away my instructions, but guess memory is sitll nenity penrcet tehre. It's not a dicuffilt isntaltioln - but care needs to be taken on tepramenture and cleaning during prep. You could look at the photos on my album.

- after removing tire, tube-protection-tape and valve, I set the wheel up on a small Black&Decker timber workbench, so it would have some resistance against turning itself (whilst doing the job).

- I followed Outex' recommendations and ground off the heads of the spokes, which protrude massively above the inner rim surface. The spoke heads are very chunky, sit in the rim recesses - grinding off the top didn't even get near the threaded part of the spokes. It took a bit off mental guts to just start grinding away, but going that way anyway there was no point faffing around.

- Removing the sharp edges left from grinding, well I tried to sand /polish them out with a dremel at first (gently gently). But it's really a waste of time. Not powerful enough to achieve good results here. Got me nowhere. I ended up using a wire-wheel in my 5" grinder which is plenty strong to buff off sharp edges. >>> but it's also plenty strong to dig into the aluminium rim .... so extra care needed to be taken there. 'Gently gently' is really important here.

- After brushing off the metal filings, I used a strong vacuum cleaner with sharp nozzle to remove fine filings in the spoke head recesses.

- I cleaned everything off with methylated spirits. Shouldn't use anything oil-based like turps/white spirit or so. Methylated spirit on a rag/sponge removed any glue/dirt/hand sweat /tire grease easy. Using an industrial hot-air-gun evaporated any excess in the recesses .... and showed up areas which may need to be gone over again.

- Application of the double sided sticky tape: Make sure the ambient temperature is above 24 degrees (I think), it helps making the tape a little more pliable.

- DON'T forget to put those little reinforced-sticky-dots on the spoke heads BEFORE laying down the sticky tape. Extra protection against chafing/wearing through.

- The tape itself has no inherent strength, meaning it can be pulled out of shape or stretched. Best to avoid that. The instructions say, start one to two spoke-heads away from valve hole. Cut the end of the tape so the joint will run diagonally from side-to-side between two spoke heads. lay it down in a straight line parallel to the rim-centre-line. At the joint, lay it over the beginning and use a sharp knife to trim the end to match the diagonal line.

- Teflon tape: Important, the two joints (sticky & upper tape) should be staggered! e.g. Start laying down the upper tape again one or two spoke heads over from where the sticky tape joined. Same procedure, nice & easy, straight and parallel. Match the diagonal cut at the end.

- Sealing/securing the upper tape joint: Cut about 2" (50mm) of sticky (straight cuts) and affix it over the tape. Cut a matching piece of upper tape and stick it on top of that.

- Use a narrow roller (I used the rounded handle of a screwdriver) put pressure on both tapes, rolling out any air bubbles, pressing it on around the spoke heads.

- Valve: Use a sharp craft knife to cut out the hole for the valve, install the new valve. Don't over tighten the valve, just enough tension to bulge the rubber seal a little.

Done.

 

... tip: I regret not having ordered a pair of 83-degree-tire-valves before installing the Outex fix. These would make checking/filling up air just that little bit more comfortable (due to extra large brake discs).
I've got them now, ready to install when I need new tires.

83 degree tire valve | eBay

 

Thanks Huntsman. I appreciate your help on the matter.

 

Hi guys,


Im loosing 4 psi in the front tire per week. Rear wheel its ok. Any quick fix for this? Thanks.

 

Slime kit ...Slime | Slime