[Noel61]

For all those that may find themself with a R12 at some stage..... the same sort of hate was endless when the euro 5 21 R9's eventuated. It mostly passed over time.

Don't get too turned off by the forum posts at this point, eventually more of you will be here and things will settle in a more balanced way.

 

[PG46]

Lets face it, hardly anyone on this forum is riding a 'bog standard' bike as it rolled out the factory - we all do our own aesthetic tweaks and I am just glad the air / oil cooled format has made it through the latest round of emissions because I know one day sooner or later I will end up owning an R12, and it will not stay 'standard'!

 

[DomNineT]

Yeah, those Option 719 II pics (thank you to @DomNineT for posting) look fantastic. I still haven't been able to sit on one in person, but that silver and red package is stunning and the details on the bike are really impressive. Personal taste aside, it's clearly a bike that was fully designed with intent from the ground up. I like my NineTs like my coffee - black, but that silver/red combo looks really great in every pic/video I've seen. Like you, I loved the look of the older gen too (obv, having bought one), particularly the more aggressive stance. But from all the reviews I've read/watched, the handling characteristics don't seem to have changed much. It leaves me thinking that the slight change in rake/trail isn't really the thing contributing to the more sporty stance of the first gen bikes. I think it might just be the long tank. The shorter tank and resulting change in position of the seat to the bars just naturally gives the bike a slightly more laid back silhouette. I think the hump on both gen bikes suit the design of each bike respectively, so I wouldn't nitpick it.

I'm debating on whether to just go put the order in and skip waiting for a demo. I would normally never do that, but I've had an R9T and three R1200Rs, so I don't think I'm going to find anything shocking on a test ride. Maybe just some personal ergo things that I'd have had to have changed anyway.

Well just goes to show aesthetics are 100% subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad you like it.

I would definitely still take a test ride. You want to be sure before you drop that sort of cash. Moreso, if you currently have a 9T, you want to be sure you won't regret the decision to swap! I'm sure the changes aren't huge, but definitely more towards relaxed/cruise rather than more sport from the current model. Which is apparently what many prospective owners want, so could be a big upside.

 

[Spankey]

@DomNineT Thanks for the pictures. I ordered without seeing it in the flesh or a test ride as someone was on a long ride on the demo bike. They had an R12 available but I declined and jumped back on my R9T as it was a lovely day - a rarity in Scotland.

Changed the cylinder covers for shadow black though to ensure the red frame would scream ‘look at me you red frame haters!’. I suppose some won’t want to speak to me when I’m parked up. 😉

I also red online that the red frame is the faster and lighter R12T in the same way my Red and Blue 9T was faster than other colours.

 

[TimC]

I'll take the opposite side here -- I think the bike above looks great. The red frame really pops and makes the bike look sportier to me. The stripe on the side cover is a nice touch and balances it the brightly painted frame, too. But...

I don't like the pebbled finish of the swingarm. It looks like someone took a can of spray-on truck bedliner to it. And the R12 badge looks out of place and like an afterthought - similar to what I wrote about the same badge on the R12 cruiser in my recent post about the walkaround of that bike.

I got to see a new R12 nineT in person at the local dealer shop for a few minutes last weekend. It wasn't on the sales floor yet, but the let me into the shop to briefly check it out. Yes, it's different from our R9Ts, but I think there's more to like than dislike. Also, I think we ought to take a step back and ask ourselves, if there had never been an R nineT, what would we think about the R12 nineT? From that perspective, I think it's pretty good.

The only thing I hate about the new bike is the price. The one I looked at is over $19K USD. That bike has a few options, but none of the expensive Option 719 goodies. Converting the price on the bike pictured above, it's $21,765 USD. There are many new bikes I'd consider buying for less money. Until BMW introduces some cheaper variants like the Pure and Scrambler, I think they've priced themselves out of the market for many people.

 

[Karamazov]

Well just goes to show aesthetics are 100% subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad you like it.

I would definitely still take a test ride. You want to be sure before you drop that sort of cash. Moreso, if you currently have a 9T, you want to be sure you won't regret the decision to swap! I'm sure the changes aren't huge, but definitely more towards relaxed/cruise rather than more sport from the current model. Which is apparently what many prospective owners want, so could be a big upside.

My 9T is already long gone. If I wanted it back, there are plenty on the used market and even some new ones at attractive discounts.

While I appreciate that some of the older gents on the forum are nostalgic for a time when sport motorcycles looked more like standards, I don't really share that perspective. I didn't find anything about my 9T to be "sporty", so I'm not really lamenting any perceived change in sportiness in the new R12 NineT. Other than the racer, there wasn't a model in the original range that I wouldn't have classified as a standard. That's certainly not to say you couldn't make mods to a factory 9T that would maybe put it more in the Thruxton category (suspension, clip ons, rearsets, etc...) but I imagine that will be just as easily done on an R12 - and I assume people will. I thoroughly enjoy seeing people mod to their own taste, but my preference is towards functional (but handsome) sit-up-and-beg standard bikes. That's where 99% of my riding falls. True sports bikes in every flavor are available now, and if I want that, I can just add one to the stable.

I've yet to hear anything in any review that suggests there's any meaningful departure in ride characteristics from the previous gen, and don't expect a test ride will change my opinion on that. What has definitely changed is some design features and technology options - most of which I view as welcome upgrades.

I thank you for your concern about my potential buyer's remorse, but if it assuages your doubts, I have never once regretted buying a new motorcycle. It's one of my all time favorite things to do. If it doesn't work out, a magical thing happens - I get to buy another one. 😉

 

[DomNineT]

Yeah fair enough. I guess that's the beauty of these bikes - they can be different things for different people. Based on what you enjoy it sounds like the new bike will suit you fine, I hope you enjoy it.

No offense intended, I've just never been one to buy and sell things so tend to commit to a purchase decision for life (the life if the item) and thus take a lot more time to make a decision and would never buy any vehicle without test drives/rides - but again, sounds like that's not an issue for you! Enjoy the bike!

 

[DomNineT]

...
The only thing I hate about the new bike is the price. The one I looked at is over $19K USD. That bike has a few options, but none of the expensive Option 719 goodies. Converting the price on the bike pictured above, it's $21,765 USD. There are many new bikes I'd consider buying for less money. Until BMW introduces some cheaper variants like the Pure and Scrambler, I think they've priced themselves out of the market for many people.

Yeah, the price is a little extreme. You can ride away on a new Ducati Streetfighter V4 for the same money or save $4k and ride away a Ducati Bayliss Edition V2 here in Aus. I bought my 9T new in 2020 for 2/3 of the cost. Would be very hard to justify the price tag now even if you loved the new bike - or/unless you have a fair bit of money and a 30k purchase is nbd.

 

[Spankey]

My order for the R12 with the 719 Option II pack and all the tech plus shadow cylinder covers was £19k - $24k. So yes, expensive. I got an excellent trade in in my 9T (I owned it outright) so I managed to justify it in my mind. I intend to keep this one for a long time or until gasoline is illegal.

 

[DomNineT]

My order for the R12 with the 719 Option II pack and all the tech plus shadow cylinder covers was £19k - $24k. So yes, expensive. I got an excellent trade in in my 9T (I owned it outright) so I managed to justify it in my mind. I intend to keep this one for a long time or until gasoline is illegal.

Yeah wow. I feel the same way about my 2020. Hopefully goes another 150,000km at least and then i'd probs just rebuild the motor or buy a replacement engine.

 

[DomNineT]

My order for the R12 with the 719 Option II pack and all the tech plus shadow cylinder covers was £19k - $24k. So yes, expensive. I got an excellent trade in in my 9T (I owned it outright) so I managed to justify it in my mind. I intend to keep this one for a long time or until gasoline is illegal.

Out of curiousity, what made you want to change from your current 9T?

 

[Spankey]

Out of curiousity, what made you want to change from your current 9T?

Short version. I wanted better lights, Option 719 bits - appearance/adjustable stuff - digital gauge and cruise control after riding Scotland - France. Was waiting for the right 9T (delivery mileage/ex demo) during December to take to Pier City to mod then decided on the R12 when it was announced. Midlife crisis wanting new, I suppose I would have spent the same for customisations.
I love/loved my R9T. I would have kept it if I could have two bikes.

 

[DomNineT]

Short version. I wanted better lights, Option 719 bits - appearance/adjustable stuff - digital gauge and cruise control after riding Scotland - France. Was waiting for the right 9T (delivery mileage/ex demo) during December to take to Pier City to mod then decided on the R12 when it was announced. Midlife crisis wanting new, I suppose I would have spent the same for customisations.
I love/loved my R9T. I would have kept it if I could have two bikes.

Yeah fair enough mate. Hope you enjoy the new bike. I just saw your 2019 - beautiful bike, i always liked that color scheme too, and only 3000 miles!

 

[Spankey]

I had put another 500 on it before I advertised it. Someone is going to view it in Bristol - I transported it there as I’m moving South. Perhaps I may see it again on here. Flawless bike apart from the snorkel cover I tried painting black. 🫤

 

[DomNineT]

Yeah, the price is a little extreme. You can ride away on a new Ducati Streetfighter V4 for the same money or save $4k and ride away a Ducati Bayliss Edition V2 here in Aus. I bought my 9T new in 2020 for 2/3 of the cost. Would be very hard to justify the price tag now even if you loved the new bike - or/unless you have a fair bit of money and a 30k purchase is nbd.

Wow, even a fully optioned BMW S1000R Race is cheaper ride away. Where does all the cost in the 9T come from?

 

[Karamazov]

Wow, even a fully optioned BMW S1000R Race is cheaper ride away. Where does all the cost in the 9T come from?

So when you bought your 9T it was the cheapest, best equipped bike available on the market? Man, you really got lucky. It must've been really nice not to have to justify your luxury purchase with a line-by-line cost analysis vs every other bike on offer, including exotic race bikes you weren't interested in buying.

 

[TimC]

So when you bought your 9T it was the cheapest, best equipped bike available on the market? Man, you really got lucky. It must've been really nice not to have to justify your luxury purchase with a line-by-line cost analysis vs every other bike on offer, including exotic race bikes you weren't interested in buying.

Now now, let's not get snarky here. I think DomNineT's question is valid. Given the advanced suspension and technology in an S1000, it's hard for BMW to justify the similar pricing of the nineT. It's just not a value proposition, at least not the regular/standard nineT. That's one reason I bought a Pure; it was cheaper and I could afford it.

In answer to that question, I think part of what you're paying for with the nineT is aesthetics. It's a premium bike from a premium brand, aimed at upscale customers with money to burn. Of course, we're not all that customer demographic, but it's clear to me that's BMW's target customer. (It's the same with their cars - especially their EVs.) So they're price the bike where they want to, and people who really want one will still buy it.

High end and performance bikes across the board seem way more expensive to me now, even from the Big 4 brands. BMWs are obviously no exception. I can't even begin to think about buying a new bike for $20K USD. Right now, with interest rates where they are, even $15K would be a stretch for me. Thankfully, I'm not in the market for a new (or newer) bike right now. Maybe by the time I'm ready for another bike, I can score a used R12 nineT at a reasonable price!

 

[Karamazov]

Now now, let's not get snarky here. I think DomNineT's question is valid. Given the advanced suspension and technology in an S1000, it's hard for BMW to justify the similar pricing of the nineT. It's just not a value proposition, at least not the regular/standard nineT. That's one reason I bought a Pure; it was cheaper and I could afford it.

In answer to that question, I think part of what you're paying for with the nineT is aesthetics. It's a premium bike from a premium brand, aimed at upscale customers with money to burn. Of course, we're not all that customer demographic, but it's clear to me that's BMW's target customer. (It's the same with their cars - especially their EVs.) So they're price the bike where they want to, and people who really want one will still buy it.

High end and performance bikes across the board seem way more expensive to me now, even from the Big 4 brands. BMWs are obviously no exception. I can't even begin to think about buying a new bike for $20K USD. Right now, with interest rates where they are, even $15K would be a stretch for me. Thankfully, I'm not in the market for a new (or newer) bike right now. Maybe by the time I'm ready for another bike, I can score a used R12 nineT at a reasonable price!

I don't happen to think it's a valid line of inquiry. But my point really wasn't that Dom's S1000RR comparison didn't have merit, but that making a value argument about a luxury good is really kind of pointless. And that shining that light on the previous gen has the same effect. The original 9T is basically a nice headlight, fuel tank, and seat schlopped onto a parts bin bike. It has a budget suspension, a 20yr old final drive mated to a 15yr old engine, and a myriad of other parts from their line-up. And even the fancy bits were pulled from the already sunk cost of the scrapped LoRider model. There isn't any point in the production run where the 9T wasn't one of the worst value propositions in its class. You could buy and fully equip a Speed Twin for much less money.

Nothing has changed about the inflated price of BMW heritage bikes. If anything, the redesign and marketing costs of the new model actually justify some of the price increase. The only thing that has changed is Dom's price sensitivity. But since he doesn't seem at all interested in owning an R12, that really shouldn't be an issue.

 

[DomNineT]

So when you bought your 9T it was the cheapest, best equipped bike available on the market? Man, you really got lucky. It must've been really nice not to have to justify your luxury purchase with a line-by-line cost analysis vs every other bike on offer, including exotic race bikes you weren't interested in buying.

You're right, the 9T was still an expensive bike when i bought mine in 2020, and it did give me pause given the other bikes I was shopping against (Triumph 1200R, Ducati Streetfighter V4, Ducati Monster 1200S, BMW R1250RS) which seemed like better value from a cost-to-price perspective, but I just wanted the 9T and was willing to swallow the premium. The new model, however, seems to have stepped up massively in price, not just in absolute terms but against those same 'competitor' bikes.
.
My 9T new was $21500 Aud ride-away, and a Streetfighter V4 was $29500- then, and is still $29500 now, while that R12 9T I posted was asking $32,500! Given the 9T hasn't really changed - it's still the same 1170cc air-cooled boxer with the same shaft drive in a tubular steel frame (acknowledge the new bike does have tubeless wheels), I feel it's gotten a little too premium on the price front. Part of my sensitivity is no doubt due to my anger at our Gov for allowing inflation more generally to get and stay so high though - but even relatively speaking the increase seems significant.
.
Even if I liked the aesthetics of the new bike, I would certainly struggle to justify the price now. But I am not so wealthy that $10,000- isn't a large amount of money for me.
.
I think BMW would have been better served leaving the 9T as it was, upgrading the suspension and dropping the price.

Cheers, Dom

 

[DomNineT]

Ok, so the standard R12 NineT with heated grips is 'only' $27,615- here. That's a little more reasonable, but still very expensive.